Alright, I don't really have a specific question on slash fiction that contains explicit rape, but I think it's a topic that needs to be discussed.

Personally, I can't read explicit rape, much less write it. It very nearly turns my stomach sometimes. Perhaps because of all the training (including rape and sexual abuse counseling) I had to go through in order to be a counselor for all the incoming freshmen at my university, and having to hear stories from rape victims, I just have a much different perspective about it.

I know some women and men have rape fantasies, and that's also sort of unfathomable for me. I'm not saying that having such fantasies is wrong since fantasies aren't reality and I'm sure we all have some pretty strange ones, because I'm not one to judge people's fantasies, but the appeal issue baffles me.

What is it about Rape Fics? Why do people read/write/enjoy? them?

Or just thoughts on the issue....I think it's something that outsiders looking at the slash fandom might really get turned off by, or be mystified about.

The whole idea of rape is handled so badly by about 98% of fics that I've read containing it. The basic plot: Elf wondering round, kidnapped by Orc/Man/other Elf etc, Elf is raped, Elf is rescued and usually quite quickly the Elf is on the receving end of "comfort". No, just don't do it. I really really despise that plot line.

I've only found a few rape fics where the whole matter is dealt with a more realistic attitude (what I assume to be more realistic, it's something I hope I never find out). Morgana's "Glorfindel's Darkest Hour" and Blue's "Mani Marte" are the only ones I can think of right now.

Personally, I just don't understand why so many writers include such explicit rape scenes in their fics. I can't read them, it is a huge squick of mine. But what really gets me is just how lightly these writers treat the whole matter. A lot of the time it's just used as a way to get the main pairing together, just a plot aid. I think it's totally wrong to treat rape in such a flippant way. Actually the same thing could be said about most of the fics out there containing child abuse.

I know I haven't actually answered your question, I don't have one really. These are just my thoughts on the matter (rather jumbled ones at that, it's late and I'm tired).

I'm in the same boat here. I simply CANNOT read such fics. I've tried, and I've always ended up stopping as soon as it gets messy. Quite frankly, being raped is one of my worst nightmares, and If such a situation were to arise, I'd much rather just be murdered straight off. I don't understand how anyone could fantasize about that and enjoy it.

I suppose some people are just better at separating themselves emotionally from stories like that, but I've just never been able to do it.

That's something I can only agree with! I did read some other rape-fics which were quite good, but these two are the only ones that I really remember!

Um, yes... reading and writing rape... I actually like to read it sometimes, if it's well done (which often isn't the case).
I read an article once that people who fantasized about rape or being raped just see it as some kind of turn-on, because they are able to influence the rapist in their fantasies by acting in a certain way (or at least imagining to do so). Hm, sounds more complicated than I wanted it to be.

As to writing rape... I am writing a story at the moment where Orlando is raped... but I didn't rape him explicitly (I couldn't!) and try to concentrate on the healing-process without using it as a help to get him together with Viggo.

Hm... should try to explain why I started to write that story in the first place....
Originally I only wanted to write some sort of short story with only three chapters, which was to be at least slightly autobiographically. Somewhen in the third chapter my (almost non-existing) plot suddenly decided to grow into a whole complicated net of ideas and even more plot.... (I'm going to post chapter 13 after I finish this reply). I don't really know when, but at some point of time the rape suddenly entered the plot because it just... seemed to fit in... it's rather difficult to describe. Anyway to some extent I do know what I'm writing about and I hope it won't be too much like a plot-help.

I REALLY don't like fics where people use rape as a pointless plot device, like if you ever go on fanfiction.net (I've started to avoid that site because there are so many Mary Sues I can't even find a good non slash fic).

All these teenage girls write their little Mary Sue legomances, and it's like "girl gets abused and raped (explicitly) then Legolas or some other random Elf falls in love with her and they live happily ever after."

That makes me uncomfortable, because, like telegramsam said, being raped is one of the things I'd never want to go through. To treat something so serious in so light a fashion is just not cool.

I've read fics - and loved them - that included rape as a part of the story, but it wasn't rape for the sake of rape. It was part of the tale, and it wasn't meant to be enjoyed. It wasn't the "Oh, hee hee, this is fun to write!" type of fic, it was meant to be seen as something horrible and terrible and traumatizing.

Writing rape is fine as long as you do it right, but make it have MEANING in your story - don't throw it in there "just because". The same goes for explicit, horrible torture. It's not something you should toss around. ("Oh wow, look what I can do to Legolas! He's gonna be beaten, and starved, and chained, and..." *shudders*)

It just bugs me when people decide to do that, like "I'm gonna add a little spice to my story, what better way to do that than a rape scene!" *cringes* Uh... no.

Heh, don't worry. I didn't really have a question either. I just thought it warranted being discussed.

I love the story "Heart and Body" and while it does contain a rather graphic rape scene, with the exception of one or two times that I've read it, I skip over that chapter entirely.

I do think adding explicit rape to a story just to set up hurt/comfort almost immediately afterward is terrible. If the reader was going for an even remotely emotionally-believable story, there's absolutely no way a character who's been raped will jump in the sack with ANYONE in the near future, whether their giving or receiving. No, sex will not help them heal.

Rape as a pointless-plot-device is one of the worst things, I think, a writer can add to their story.

It's a difficult question and I guess every writer of rape fics will have her own reason for including it.
The most rape fic's I've read have been in Gundam Wing fandom (where's it's almost fanon that Duo is/was raped or sexually abused at some point) , and in the *good* fics the backlash is handled very realistically.

The appeal for me is that I'm a sucker for angst and males in vulnerable positions. And it doesn't get much angstier or vulnerable than being raped. It can complete shake up a storyline and thereby opening up new possibilities for exploring emotions, relationships and male behavior.

And something it just turns me on. It's a (safe) fantasy and (like most fantasies) has nothing to do with reality. But it just turns me on the see a guy that vulnerable.

As for writing it, I've written three fic that included a rape and I'll try to explain my reason for doing so:
First one: (Buffy Fandom) Here the rape is purely used as means of inflicting pain and exerting control. Faith (being very unstable and emotional) lashes out at Willow for trying the reverse her body swap with Buffy. She is also one of the few people who know about Willow/Tara, so as her ultimate revenge she rapes Tara. The rape is there as a ultimate way to show Faith's rage and disregard for others. And how her own isolation and low self-esteem makes her want to destoy the happiness she sees in Willow and Tara that she herself can't have.
Second one: (Silmarillion) This one was written for the LoM darkfic challenge and is hence *very* dark in all respects. I wanted to paint a picture of a Middle-Earth society that was *very* against homosexually and where the Valar were more alike to fundamentalist Muslims (no offence to Muslims intended). In the fic Finrod (who had a relationship with Barahir and a crush on Beren) and Beren end up in the dungeons of Sauron, where Finrod is tortured and raped by Sauron/Orcs. Finrod is then blamed and condemned for being raped (much like in some Muslim counties women get blamed for being raped) because he is seen as perverted for being homosexual and therefore must have 'attracted' such advances from Sauron and all things evil (who would naturally have such impulses).
Third one: (PotC) This is the only one where the raped is there for no reason. It's just there as a fantasy because I wanted to see Will Turner being that vulnerable (after being so smuk for most of the film).


Aeneus

Can't really say that I like rape. I haven't read that many rape-fics, and all the ones I have seem to be: Rape (usually elf), trauma trauma, oh wait, here's some fit elf/man, I'll let him have sex with me because that takes the trauma away. Wait, WHAT?

I'm sure that there are well-written rape fics out there but I don't have much desire to read them. I do quite like fics which include something which is almost non-consenting sex or sex which is regretted afterwards (don't know why...usually adds a layer of darkness), but outright rape is too much for me.

Rape fics? I have one very effective way to deal with them: denial of it's existence!


L'L

I guess, as with most fic elements, it really depends on how the writer goes about it. I don't like really explicit rape scenes, and I can't read a fic that just centers around the rape. Mostly the only good ones I've read go up to the point that the rape happens, then before it really starts switches scenes, and the 'details,' if you will, are recalled in the memory, not so much the happenings but the thoughts that went on in the character's head at the time. There really has to be a deeper reason for the fic, like some intense emotional connection between the character who got raped and another.

And then, there are the not-rape-but-still-not-fully-consensual fics. Like, the character has doubts about it all, but it just feels so good, etc. Those are quite normally pretty enjoyable.

I agree. When I write a pairing, I usually put my favourite in the bottom. I like to see a male dominated, and sometimes humiliated and hurt. It's just a fantasy.

I am not saying I want to be raped, or watch someone beeing raped. And I don't think I could read a fic where a female is raped. That's too close to home.

I wrote a really brutal rape-fic, just for the sake of the rape, because I felt like it at the time. Now I'm writing a sequel with major angst. It's only harmless fantasies. I don't think anyone of us would wish this on actual people, or go out and rape someone after fantasizing about rape. There's a difference between pretend and reality.

well its not like i condone rape or anything, but i know that non of us do, nomatter what you write or read, so there really shouldnt be a reason for me to say that at all :lol:

well i used to hate it, but i must admit it grew on me, because they can work really well in a plot if its twisted in the right way. its pretty crappy in a pwp, but then again, alot of pwp's are pure shite if you ask me.. i want a plot dammit! (dang i have gotten old and soft)

i tried to have a rape scene, on request in harvester, and i just couldent write it, i simplyu just couldent find the words. i dont mind reading it, but i will never ever try and write it again.

Once I wrote a Frodo/Lotho rape story, BUT DON'T DO THAT! :wall: :wall: :wall:
I felt so sorry for Frodo, :frodo: :petting: I will never do that again. I don't like it anymore and I don't read it.

Sorry love :hide:

*twitch*

Poor Frodo. It seems it's always he and Legolas who get raped.... the poor fellas.

i will occasionally read rape fics, but i'll only read ones in which the subject of rape is properly handled. i can't stand fics where it seems as though an overload of gratuitous violence and suffering on the part of the victim is merely being used to show how much the author gets off on it. nor do i abide those fics where an elf/man/hobbit, etc is raped and suffers a lot of mental/physical torment, then scroll down the page and voila! the said elf/man/hobbit is leaping into bed with their 'best-friend-who-has-loved-them-for-years-but-never-revealed-their-feelings-and-now-they're-the-source-of-all-healing.'
i have however read a few rape fics where the actual incident wasn't explained in graphic detail, the whole thing was handled with a mature outlook, and there was no sign of a pwp in sight. those were actually very good, but i do find it hard to find a rape fic i enjoy.

did that make any sense at all? i'm not very good at conveying my opinions :hide:

that did indeed make sense, to me atleast - cuz that was exsactly what i tried to say before

Mano - I wholeheartedy agree. That's kinda what I meant, too...

I read one once, it was called "Shadow of Lórien" and 't goes about Poor Legolas getting raped by Haldir and a few other Lórien Elves. 't is very sad, and eventually Aragorn, legolas' meleth kills Haldir. Cruel story. But written very well, the author had written it in Tolkien's style as if it had been ripped out of the book.

Maybe because those 2 are very vulnerable, that's maybe why they are always the victim...

SORRY FRODO :petting:

Yeah... I've thought of writing one with Legolas about twice, and then I realized that I shouldn't, and that upon closer consideration I really didn't want to. Just like pointlessly evil Thranduil... one of my fics nearly turned into that (this was years ago), but lucky for me, I have a friend and fellow author who will read my stuff and try keep me from doing such things. She'll hit me upside the head if she has to (a tap, really, and it's kind of an in-joke between us...)

Alright, well, personally... I LOVE rape fic. :shifty: Legolas is always the unfortunate victim, and most of the times, either Haldir or Boromir plays the rope of the rapist, and then the blong elf finds comfort in Aragorn's arms.

But my very favorite rape stories is when Legolas gets gang-raped. "Shadow of Lothlorien" was a really good one, written by Tricia (most of her stories are about Legolas being raped) I also read another one where both Aragorn and Boromir team up to conquer and subdue the poor, lonely elf.

I can't explain it, but it just really turns me on. I love it when gorgeous men are taken over brutally. But, as some of you mentionned, it's just a fantasy; I wouldn't want to get raped myself (like, ewwww) or witness a real rape scene.

But what's great about rape stories are not only the rape scenes themselves, but the comfort scene later on. Isn't it the cutest thing to imagine Legolas weeping in the safety of Aragorn's strong manly arms? And then they snuggle, and then... :makeout:

Well everybody has his one tasted ^^, :)

RogueMoore: Have you red my fic 'A Night Of Despair'? Since you are another rape fan, I would very much like your feedback. :wub:

Eremir, I'd love to read your story. What's the pairing? (so I can find it :P )

Aragorn/Legolas or Boromir/Legolas. I hope you like it! :P

It was a very nice fic (quite touching, at the end), free from the horrid cliches that plague this genre! *claps*

Sequel is on the way. It will explore the circumstances further. I can't wait to finish it! :)

Should be interesting... can't wait!

hhahah i just had to reply in this topic, cuz i just started to write a new fic, where i had to have some rapish situation for the plots sake.. i really thought of you guys, and well i settled for the subtle mentioning of it :lol:

Thank you Azzy.

Well, this topic is sort of old, but I'll give ya my 2 cents anyway just because :D

I really hate rape fics. Not all of them but let's say 99%. Why?
Well, the main reason why I can't read them is because most of them give the impression that rape is something "good", something hot and erotic when the act is described explicit. Sometimes the victim even turns out to enjoy it in the end, and that is just sick. Sorry.
I mean it DOES happen that rape victims "fall in love" with their rapist, but that's just a twisted way of their phsyche to cope with the mental effects such a dead has on someone, probably the ONLY way to go through it for some victims.
I've never been in that situation (thank Eru!) but still just the thought about being raped makes me wanna throw up.

What is interesting though, is the fact (in case I believe the person who told me) that men handle it way better than women. A guy I know told me about this because his father works for the police and is in contact with male rape victims. While female victims always don't just feel bodily injured but also mind-raped, absolutely humiliated and even dirty, men tend to 'just' be full of anger for being over-powered. At least that's what he said. They never have such a deep trauma as women do. They feel the pain, they feel the humilation but they get over it and go on...
I still can't fully believe it, but he said it is so.
If it really IS true that would mean that let's say Legolas would recover way quicker than a female, and therefore those hurt/comfort stories would not be as irrational as we think.

But still... when I read a story I identify with the protagonists and therefore identify with the situation and that's just... horrible. I'm not saying I would never read a story where rape is a part of the plot, but as most of you said not just because. If it really does make sense for the plot and is not too explicit then yes. And even if that friend told me otherwise I'd prefer a serious and slow approach to the healing process, showing how the victim gets over it (and please not just by shagging someone else).

I've written a sort of rape fic myself once. It's some years ago and probably I'd do it differently today. It was a Buffy fic where Buffy was drugged by two guys in a bar (It was short after her mom died) and they took her to the park and wanted to rape her. The drugs caused that she wasn't able to controll her body anymore and so she was completely helpless. Then Spike came along (because he had followed her earlier) and rescued her before those guys could rape her. Afterwards he walked her home and stayed, holding her in his arms when she fell asleep, but it was really just comfort, no sex and not even kissing. It was only to make a sort of friendship and truce possible, which worked quite well I think. (Who would have thought that Spike tried that horrible thing himself in season 6?)

I often thought about writing about Celebrians abduction at Caradhras, but I still haven't done so. And I seriously doubt that I'd ever write about Legolas being raped, or any other elf. Even if the thing about male rape victims is true, Elves still are something different. Their emotions run deeper than those of men, they feel stronger joy but also grief, so I guess such a humilation would be pretty bad for them, and even if I like torturing my protagonists with arrows, blades or heartbreak *g* I wouldn't be THAT cruel ;)

Okay, quite the long rant, eh? Enough then *g*

No, no, absolutely not, never, no way. I simply *cannot* read or write rape fics and I hate, hate, hate, *hate* it when peopel do not label thier writings with a warning. It upsets me enormously, and I can't see any good to it. Now, I'm not meaning to say anything bad against those of you who don't mind rape fics, but I *really* don't like them. Can't handle them; will never read them. Simple as that.

And how about a longer story where somebody (maybe a side character) is raped and it's not explicitly described? Maybe only mentioning of it happening in the past or something? I mean sometimes, if you have a real long story, things like that are needed for the plot.

You know, I'm gonna be honest here. My all time favorite fic is "Cold Snap". Where Sam rapes Smeagol. This is the only case where the rape thing truly worked for me. Because of Gollum's already fragile and venerable state of being, you just couldn't imagine it any other way with him. Some have tried though, and failed terribly. You just can't imagine Smeagol making Frodo blow him.

I know it sounds bad. It probably sounds like someone defending necrophilia, because they're "not hurting anyone". Or bestiality because "the other party doesn’t know better". Those are actually the worst things you could mistake what I'm saying for. What I'm saying is: Smeagol, because of his mental state is very passive in Cold Snap, witch is not a good thing to probably do with more sane and coherent people like Legolas or Frodo.

So the only way you could possibly keep me from being disturbed with Frodo/Legolas rape, is to make it a dream, make the receiving person drugged, or add a revenge plot.

But that's just me, hope it helps!

Omg those two fics you mentioned in the first few posts! I loved them :)
especially, glorfindel's darkest hour.

and another thing. Eremir, i loved ur rape fic. i cant wait for the sequel to be finished :D

Oh, it's slowly coming along. Working on chapter four right now. I don't want to post it until it's done. Too much pressure.

Glad you liked it! :D

I think one of the main differences between rape and rape fantasy is that unlike rape, one gets to choose his/her fantasies. And I highly doubt that anybody
fantazises about the extreme mental torture and damage which rape causes. Isn't it something which one can't even imagine if it hasn't happened?

I suppose there has to be... rape fics. It's because of the future. Logic, don't fail me now...
You see, there will be a time when nobody is shocked of slash anymore. If shock value has any intrinsic value, then the heavy arsenal must be brought to daylight.

But then there's the question of how such a horrible event is handled in a given story and how big part it will play.
Personally I'd like to see *it* as something that has happened in the (distant) past of a charecter. Or perhaps *it* is replaced by coercion by, say, political and mental means et cetera.

Also, a *character* who rapes tends to become automatically a very bad person and nothing else. And totally bad guys aren't that interesting, because I think that there's usually no surprising use for the character during the rest of the story. Are they not denied the chance of redemption (which would be interesting to read)?

I'm a little late here too, but I had to respond. This is a topic that I understand both sides to, but I go with the darker. I like rape fics if it's handled well. It's not an actual fantasy of being raped that turns people on. They have it in their minds as more noncon. I love angst, no doubt.

I write rape and dark fics. They play out fears and thoughts that go through my head...

"If I wasn't such a bad woman on the page I could not be such a good woman in life"_Quills

I wrote one, my first LotR fic, called The Capture. And, I sort-of embarrassed to say, had the cliche plot: Fellowship get captured, Legolas is separated and raped because he is an elf, they escape, Aragorn goes to heal, all is ok. However, bear with me, I purposefully stayed away from the sex for comfort. It was a healing experience. There was no sex in it b/c it's true, no one is going to rush into sex after they've been violated. Plus, it was part of the story. It held emotions, compassion and anger, sadness, hopelessness. It deals with the theory of elves fading. It may come off as a horrible story to some, but my intent behind it was to show the levels of the human/elf spirit. A short incident occuring amidst a long journey to try the characters' quality.

IMHO :blush:

Pure rape sometimes is too hard for me, although there are many good rape-fics out there. Actually, I'm more into non-con. Humiliation makes me shiver :help: I love it... And I have to say that I don't read the comfort-part in the end...