Muslims

Hi Elijah,
Thanks for the info, I am working on finding some stuff for you to read too. :)

Bye!
Millisa

Peace Millisa,
I look forward to reading it.

Sorry I misunderstood your question, anyway no it didn't make me want to question anything about the Bible or my faith. But I am glad that you were willing to share your answer to his question.

And I found some websites that have alot of information that you might would want to look at if you want to:

They have alot of good information I feel at this site: (Please read the Why they converted section there are alot of good testimonies , you can even e-mail these people if you want) :)

http://www.answering-islam.org/




Don't know if you have ever heard of this man or not, his name is Dr. Jeremiah Cummings, (he was a Muslim and was involved with Louis Farrakhan), but now he is a Christian. :angel: :angel: :angel:

Here is his site:

http://www.wicctv.org/home/index.cfm

Please just take some time and read all the information that is at these sites. :) :) :)

BTW, I am still going through those threads that you posted. :) :) :)

Have a good day! :)

Millisa

This post has been edited by MillisaAnn on Apr 26 2007, 11:47 AM

Peace to you Millisa,

Thanks for the links I appreciate the effort you took to do it all. I was already aware of the “answering-islam” website. I have read through the site in the past and went through some of the stuff again today, no change from the last time, they are still administering false information and misinterpretations of everything Islam, in fact a rival website was created by Muslims called “anwering-christianity,” the muslims there on that website do the same thing, they distort SOME of Christianity and they also take Bible verses out of context, both are ALMOST as bad as each other.

Please don’t tell me your going to rely on the Christian spin of these people to get your information about Islam, because all these people do is to confirm many peoples prejudices and distort facts. I don't go to Muslims to tell me about Christianity, I go to Christians, that's why I'm here.

You mean you didn’t even contemplate anything? Nothing made you think about the oneness of God and the promise made to Abraham about the Great Nation of Ishmael? The fact that Jesus never once in the Gospel claims divinity didn’t even make you ponder? Ok sister, to each their own. :moon:

Peace,

I am reading about Islam from all sources Christian and non-christian. And I am glad you are here and are asking questions. :) :) :)

If your meaning the Trinity (Father, Son And The Holy Spirit)

And here is a quote by Dr. J. Rodman Williams( A Theologian)that best explains how I feel about it:

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/BibleStud...aspx#onetrinity


( Note: I have heard the muslims are not to crazy about CBN(Pat Robertson's ministry) this quote was on their site and this is what this person said) :)

And BTW, It says in Matthew 19:26

Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."



And yes God did promise Ishmael that he would make a great nation from him too.

Sorry for the double post I have a question and it is I have heard of an Islamic term called Hudna, What is that?

Hey Millisa,

I’m sorry if I was a little too strong in my last post. I re-read it and it sounded a little disrespectful.

Yeah, stuff like the trinity and the original sin etc, not just trinity. About your link, the man cites Matthew 28 as a reference to the trinity, I’m actually surprised you didn’t know that the verse where it says “and baptise all nations in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit” is actually a interpolation, this means it was fabricated and added later on by some unknown people. We know this because the earlier manuscripts, which are a little more reliable reads “and baptise all nation in MY NAME.” You can see the difference. The truth is the trinity is nowhere to be found in the OT or the Gospels or the NT. There's plenty of Christians that try to pussyfoot around the Bible and twist the verses to say this means trinity and that means trinity - but there is no triune God in the entire Bible. God always says He is one, all the prophets say He is one, so where on earth does this trinity come from? Deuteronomy 13 actually talks about no chasing Gods we don’t know of, the Jews never knew about the God the Son or God the Holy Spirit, so if you follow their scripture we are not allowed to call upon Jesus as God or the Holy Spirit, only God the Father is allowed.

This is not true in your reasoning is to try and say God can become a triune God, He can’t because God only does Godly things - to become a man and another form would be doing exactly what all the pagan people were saying their gods did. And God is nothing like the pagan gods, that’s what so special about Him - he is unseen - he won’t let himself become a physical idol to worship. If he does then He totally undoes everything he is and did to distinguish himself from the pagan idols for thousands of years before Jesus (pbuh).

You miss my point sister. God said Ishmael will be a great nation, not just a nation, not just a big nation, but a great nation. Ishmael is the father of the Arab people, the Arabs have never been a Great Nation, the Bible never calls them a Great Nation or that the prophecy had been fulfilled. In fact Ishmaelites (Arabs) were always split and scattered all over Arabia, they were never united as one nation, except until Muhammad (pbuh) came. It's only when Islam came did the Arabs become great and prosperous and a amazing society. God said Ishmael will be a great nation, what is great is Gods eyes, a nation that worships a false God and follows a false prophet? - No! That is not great in God’s eyes. Deuteronomy 4 gives us the answer to what the “great nation” criteria is:

“for thus will you give evidence of your wisdom and intelligence to the nations, who will hear of all these statutes and say, 'This great nation is truly a wise and intelligent people.'
For what great nation is there that has gods so close to it as the LORD, our God, is to us whenever we call upon him?
Or what great nation has statutes and decrees that are as just as this whole law which I am setting before you today?
"However, take care and be earnestly on your guard not to forget the things which your own eyes have seen, nor let them slip from your memory as long as you live, but teach them to your children and to your children's children.”

Israel was a great nation because it followed the one true God and because it had the Laws and Commandments and Scripture of God. So naturally the great nation of Ishmael must be the same, and guess what it is, because when Muhammad came, he called everyone to worship the God of Israel, he was given Laws, Commandments and Scripture (Qur’an) from God. The great nation of Ishmael is the nation created by Islam - this means God wanted to create Islam. Jesus in the Gospels in reported to have said “and the kingdom of God will be taken away from you (Israel) and given to another nation who will bring the fruits thereof.” - Who is this “another nation,” if not the nation of Ishmael, who God promised would be a Great Nation. The fulfilment of prophecy is beautiful!

I'm interested where did you hear this word and in what context? Anyway "hudna" means "quit" or "to stop" or rather "cease-fire." It is usually used in treaties to stop fighting and start peace negotiations.

Peace,

Hey Elijah,
Sorry I haven't replied, been busy doing stuff this weekend.

It's okay, don't worry about it. :) :) :)

Yes I do know the verse you are talking about Matthew 28 and what I believe what the man is trying to say is that the Bible gives us several "hints' about the Trinity.

And here's an article I found that explains more about it from Arab World Ministries:

http://awm.gospelcom.net/int/article.php?pageid=263

I posted Matthew 19:26 and my meaning behind it is that God can do anything, even be a Triune God. :angel: :angel: :angel:

Thanks for telling me what "hudna" means. :)
And I was watching John Hagee(He has a program on TBN, he is a pastor of a church in Texas) and he had on his program a former PLO terroist who is now a Christian and he was talking about how terroists use "hudna" when making peace treaties.

Sorry for the double post again.

I was unsure how to respond to this so I e-mailed Dr. Jeremiah C. Cummings (I mentioned him before in a previous post, (he was a Muslim and was involved with Louis Farrakhan), but now he is a Christian.



Anyway I asked him about what you said about Deuteronomy 4 refering to the nation of Ishamel He e-mailed me back today and he told me:

If you would like to get in contact with him I am sure Dr Cummings would be happy to assist you in anyway. :) :) :)


Here is his website:
Here is his site:

http://www.wicctv.org/home/index.cfm


Jesus Loves You! :angel: :angel: :angel:
Bye!
Millisa

My dear Millisa,

How are you hope you are well. Sorry I haven’t been able to get back to you sooner, I’ve been busy with Uni.

My reasoning to bring this up was to convey that some unknown person, somewhere in history had the audacity and the idea that it was necessary to fabricate verse in the Bible, to support the trinity. Do you see. The Word of God was interpolated, someone unknown to all of us added bits into the words of God, the Qur’an says this exactly what has been going on, and the interpolations that the Christian scholars have found thus far are testament to it. I take my hat off to the Christian scholars, because they saw falsehood and they took it out if their bibles, but there are bibles still out there with the interpolated verses still in them. You talk about the Bible hinting on the trinity, I’m sorry but I’m not willing to put my salvation on the line for some hints. The fact is that according to the Gospels, Jesus never said God was a triune God, no prophet ever said that God was a triune God, they all said worship God and He is completely one. But I do understand that you as a Christian have to accept Jesus and the Holy Spirit as God too.

My point was that God can’t to anything and everything, if you say such things you are also giving the atheist a stick to beat you with. God cannot create a tall-short man, He can create a tall and or a short man, but He cannot make someone who is both tall and short all at the same time- why? Because it is unnatural, God only does and creates what is natural. We believe God is absolutely Natural, so He does what comes naturally to Him. Because by His nature He is One and wholesome, He could never split Himself into three, because by His nature He is One and only One, by His nature He is unseen and not flesh, so according to Islam it is unnatural for God to then become seen and flesh, vis-à-vis in Jesus Christ. We believe Jesus was created by God through His Decree. God can create a million Jesus’ from a million virgins if He wanted to. Jesus was the Word of God, we believe this, God sent His word into Mary’s womb and it became flesh, just like when God created Adam, God sent His Word into the clay body of Adam, and the clay became flesh, it’s practically the same, according to the Qur’an.

I never said Deuteronomy 4 refers to Ishmaels Great nation, it refers to the great Nation of Israel. All through out the Bible the nation of Israel is NEVER called a Great nation, NOT UNTIL they come to the Promise Land and they have the Commandments/Laws of God, the Scripture of God, they all have to follow this One God. So this is the criteria for a “The Great Nation.” Now if God also Promised that Ishmael (Arabs) will also become a “Great Nation,” isn’t it likely that they will also have their own Commandments/Laws of God and Scripture of God and Worship the same one God of Abraham and the Israelites? Look at the Arabs, they have all the things the Israelites had, when God finally called them a “great nation.” The Arabs have the Commandments/Laws of God, we call this Sharia, we have Scripture of God, called Qur’an, and we worship the same God as Abraham and the Israelites!!! This means the prophecy regarding Ishmael becoming the Great Nation has already been fulfilled. It was fulfilled when God sent Muhammad (pbuh) and completed Islam! Your quote mentioned Muslims will be drawn to Christ, guess what - we already are drawn to Christ (pbuh) we follow and believe in him immensely. Isaiah 60, is not about the Great Nation of Ishmael so much, because the Arabs (sons of Kedar) are servants to Israel in it. But Muslims believe when Jesus comes back, he will reign over the whole world, the Middle-East is full of Arabs (sons of Kedar) maybe it is prophesising Arabs taking care of and helping Jesus’ reign, vis-à-vis - Palestine/Lebanon/Jordan.

Muhammad loves you too, so does God. :angel: :angel: :angel:

Peace.

I'm okay and don't worry about it I understand. :) :) :)

You talk about interpolated verses in the Bible, I think what you are meaning is that some of the orignial meaning may have been lost in the orignial Hebrew translation, right?

And I would like to know which versions of the Bible you say still have these in them?


And also about The Trinity:

I will stand by this quote I posted before:

-Dr. J. Rodman Williams


And when Jesus comes I feel it will be fully revealed to those that believe in Him then. :angel: :angel :angel:

Sorry I guess I misunderstood what you said but it sure sounded that way to me. And yes it does indeed refer to Israel.

Jesus Is Lord! :angel: :angel: :angel:
Bye!
Millisa

This post has been edited by MillisaAnn on May 3 2007, 12:36 PM

Hi Millisa,

No I mean actual fabricated verses were put into the Bible by some unknown people in the past. There was a verse in 1 John chapter 5 where it said “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these three are one.” This verse is one of the most quoted, or used to be quoted verse in Christendom to promote the trinity. But this verse is a complete fabrication, an interpolation, inserted in by someone at sometime in history. That verse is found in the old Bible manuscripts BUT not in the earlier 3rd centaury manuscripts, so when the RSV Bible was first published, translated using the 3rd Centaury manuscripts (which are more reliable) they chucked that “trinity” verse out as a fabrication. I take my hat off to the Christian scholars for doing the right thing. The RSV said in its preface that the KJV Bible before the RSV had many great mistakes and grave defects, so many it warranted revision. These are not my words but that of 30 eminent Christian scholars of the Bible, backed by 50 cooperating denominations.

Other added interpolations by unknown people in history is the whole ascension of Jesus in the Gospels. They are all found in the later manuscripts but not in the earlier 3rd Centaury ones. This means people over history, thought it was necessary to add onto the supposed Word of God. There are more, not to mention the supposed trinity verse in Matthew 28. You see the 3rd centaury manuscript said “go and baptize all the nations in my name.” The later ones say: “go and baptize all the nations in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit.” Most scholars agree this verse was inserted in by some Trinitarians to promote the trinity. Sister you must see that this is so wrong, people actually fabricated verses into the Bible. Many people accuse Muslims of ranting falsehood about the mishandling of the Bible, yet your own scholars agree interpolations are found, the proof is in the pudding, as they say in England. And of course you are right there are also mistranslations in the Bible too.

God is Lord! And that's the meaning of Elijah from Hebrew. :P :) :rain:
Peace.

This post has been edited by Elijah on May 3 2007, 01:34 PM

Hey MillisaAnn,

You quoted a professor who I had in some of my formal education -- Dr. J. Rodman Williams. I always enjoyed his classes. Very good author & scholar.

SonofAslan,

Wow that's so cool! :) :) :)

They have alot of his articles posted at CBN.org

Bye!
Millisa

Sorry again for the double post, Elijah I found another article by J.Rodman Williams that you might like:

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/BibleStud...ostal_ch05.aspx

Jesus Loves You! :angel: :angel: :angel:
Bye!
Millisa

The prophet Muhammad (pbuh): Part 1

In 570 CE a child was born to a woman named Amina, the child was named by his grandfather - he called him Muhammad, a name by which no one was named before. The child Muhammad was already born to a disadvantage, his father Abdullah died before he was even born. As was Meccan Arab tradition, the child Muhammad was given to the Bedouins outside Mecca to look aftered. At the age of 6, briefly after coming back under the care of his mother Amina, she dies from illness. Muhammad was now a complete orphan, with no father or mother, his grandfather Abdul Mutalib, the man who named him, takes Muhammad under his care. But alas, this security was not to last long, at the age of 9, only 3 years after Muhammad had become an orphan, now his own grandfather passes away, Muhammad was alone again, in this world that had been so hard on him. Now Muhammad’s uncle, Abu Talib, takes him under his care and raise the boy himself.

Abu Talib was a prosperous businessman in Mecca and after the death of his father (Abdul Mutalib) now became the head of the Bani Hashim, the ruling clan of Mecca, a subdivision of the powerfullest tribe in Arabia, the Kuraish. As Muhammad grew up he went into work early in life and became a Sheppard. He never went to school, education was not an important part of society, not when there was money to be made and jobs to be done - this was more important at this time. As time went on Muhammad also joined his uncles caravan business and used to take caravans of goods to various places in Arabia. Because of Muhammad’s conduct and the manor of his business dealings, the Arab people gave him a title, they named him Al-Amin, the trustful one, because he never cheated his customers, and they could always rely on him. They also labelled Muhammad as As-Sadiq, the truthful one, because he was always honest and told the truth. All of Mecca knew of Muhammad and he had all their respect.

After hearing of Muhammad’s fame, a women named Khadija hired Muhammad to take her caravan of goods to Syria for her, Muhammad accepted and returned doing a very good job. Khadija shortly proposed to Muhammad, who was now 25 and she was 40. Muhammad nervously accepted, this being the first women he’d started to have affection for.

Muhammad was a man who was always close to the poor people of Mecca, more so the orphans, he felt a natural affiliation with them, from his own experience, and this made him very charitable to them. He was always subdued and troubled by all the injustice that was going on around him, he saw all the people worshipping idols, not understanding how people could worship something that does nothing. He wondered about himself and his role in life, why was he an orphan, why was he here, and so he regularly used to go off into the mountains outside Mecca to fast and meditate, to try an find inner-enlighten and solace. 15 years after his marriage to Khadija, Muhammad was now 40, he went on one of his soul searching journey’s to the mountains. Muhammad was asleep in the cave of Hira, when suddenly he was surrounded by a bright light, he rose up, an angel appeared before him. “Recite!” the angel proclaimed. Being illiterate, “I don’t know how?” was Muhammad’s response. The angel continued: “Recite! In the Name of your Lord Who has created (all that exists). He has created man from a clot Recite! And your Lord is Generous. Who has taught (the writing) by the pen. He has taught man that he knew not. Nay! Verily, man does transgress. Because he considers himself as self-sufficient. Surely, unto your Lord is the return.” And so started the prophetic mission of Muhammad.

Muhammad’s wife Khadija was the first to believe in him. He invited his family members and close friends to his house for dinner one night and told them about his experience; that God had chosen him to warn them and proclaim His Message. Muhammad asked: if I was to tell you that an army was waiting outside the city ready to attack it would you believe me? They all answered yes. He then said then know I am the Messenger of God, and have been sent to warn you about your way of life. They were stunned and disbelieved, only a child, Ali, Muhammad’s cousin believed him.

Time went on and Muhammad’s following grew. The rulers of Mecca, Muhammad’s clan ,were getting anxious and felt insulted by Muhammad’s teachings against their idol gods. They wanted him dealt with, and turned to Abu Talib, his uncle to stop him. Abu Talib invited Muhammad to his house and asked him to please stop his teachings, a civil war could break out. Muhammad said “If they put the Sun in my right hand and the moon in my left, I will not abandon my mission until I succeed or I perish in the process.” Abu Talib so moved by his nephews words said to him to preach what ever he wanted to, his uncle would protect him. Time went on, Muhammad’s following still grew, but the majority of Mecca hated the Muslims and their Monotheism. The ruling clan, knew as long as Abu Talib was alive they could not harm Muhammad, so they decided to torture and kill the Muslims as a deterrent from Muhammad. Many Muslim men and women were killed in the process - the first martyrs of Islam. But that didn’t work, people still followed Muhammad. The ruling clan then decided to stop trading with the Muslims, no one in Mecca bought or sold any goods to Muhammad or the Muslims, they were starved. The Muslims were exiled out of Mecca and lived outside the city in the desert for 3 long years, with little food. But God delivered the Muslims back to their homes and the embargo against them was lifted through a miracle. Many Muslims wanted to fight back against the pagans and take revenge for all the injustice that had been done to them, but Muhammad told them that would be wrong, God had given no order to fight back, only to proclaim the Message. For 10 years Muhammad and the Muslims strived for peace and righteousness, whilst the pagans carried on persecuting them. Muhammad went from being one of the loved ones by the pagans to the most hated by the pagans, but still Muhammad’s following grew.

Then something catastrophic happened, Muhammad’s wife Khadija died, Muhammad was 50 years old now. He was heart broken, then his uncle Abu Talib died, a double blow, not only his companion had died but his protector. Muhammad’s other uncle Abu Lahab and rival Abu Suffiyan, now became the leaders of the clan, and made preparations to assassinate Muhammad. Muhammad turned to God and called out to him - "oh my God you are my only protector." And in deed God did protect Muhammad. Not in the awareness of the Pagans, but Muhammad was invited by the people of Yathrib (Medina) to their city to bring peace there, the city was inflamed with tribal wars and hoped this trustful man (Muhammad) could bring peace. Muhammad had been secretly sending Muslims to Yathrib in small numbers to avoid suspicion from the pagans. All the Muslims were practicality gone now, only Muhammad and this best friend Abu Bakr remained. The pagans decided that they would kill Muhammad in the Morning when he would go out to pray. So they waited for him out side his house from the previous night, but they fell asleep during the night - allowing Muhammad and Abu Bakr to escape to Yathrib. It had been 13 years since he started his prophetic mission in Mecca and now he had to leave for the safety of his people (Muslims). He had done nothing but offer an olive branch of peace to the Meccan Pagans but they refused it with violence. Even on the death bed of his uncle Abu Talib he told the Pagan Meccan leaders that all the glory of Persia, Egypt and Palestine would fall to the Meccans. The Pagan leaders were excited to hear that news and wanted to know what they had to do to achieve it. Muhammad replied by telling them to just forsake all their idols and false gods and it would happen. The Pagan leaders weren’t pleased by the answer and rudely just turned away and left.

Muhammad and the Muslim suffered a lot during the first 13 years of his mission. But Muhammad remained in prayer to God, asking Him to forgive them and to guide them all. He prayed for the pagans that were persecuting him. A lot is said about the peaceful nature of Jesus the Christ (pbuh), but many people over look Muhammad. They have no idea that Muhammad was a man of peace and he strove for peace, he never once cursed his enemies, never called them ‘vipers and snakes and children of the devil,’ he just proclaimed the Message of God - that they should worship Him alone, with out any partners.

Part 2 to come shortly:

Part 2:

Despite being chased by the Meccan pagans, Muhammad was in Yathrib (Medina) now, and all the Muslims who were there already rejoiced in seeing him. Quickly Muhammad was appointed arbitrator of the city and everyone accepted, the pagans, the Jews and Christians. Muhammad had a treaty drawn up for all the people of Yathrib. He did this to stop all the tribal wars and animosity that went on. The treaty called on all the people of Yathrib to be unified if any army was to attack the city, everyone agreed. The treaty also called upon the Jews to have equality with the Muslims and everyone else, everyone was given their rights, and a stark warning was given if anyone killed anyone from another group then repercussions were to be expected.

With the treaty Muhammad managed to unify the war mongering city and bring peace. Many in the city became Muslim and Muhammad the leader of the city. Muhammad had achieved something unheard of and unbelievable, he had managed to unify the clan mentality with the one of humanity and brotherhood. The Muslims became like honourable members of the clans of Yathrib. Muhammad was taking the Arabs into a new world and way unknown to them. All of a sudden this illiterate orphan and spiritual teacher was now a statesmen. Indeed the fortune of Muhammad and the Muslims did change just as God had told Muhammad it would. “verily with every hardship comes the relief” Qur’an 94:5

Security and peace wasn’t to last for too long however. Pretty soon Muhammad received news that the Pagan Meccans were taking all the goods and possessions the Muslims had left behind in Mecca, and were going to trade it all off in Syria. The Muslims urged Muhammad to take action and stop the Meccans. But Muhammad was not a fighting man, and he did not want to fight his own people (Meccans). But God sent the revelation permitting combat, with restricted commandments. Muhammad knew he had to do something, and so he decided to take 314 men to meet the caravan of the Meccans when they would return from Syria and collect what was rightfully theirs - Muhammad the spiritual teacher and prophet and statesmen was now, at the age of 53 going to become Muhammad the general.

Despite the planning of the Muslims, the Meccans found out about the plan, and so enraged sent an army of 1000 men to confront the 314 Muslims. It was almost like the 300 Spartans against the might of Persia, except the ending was different - somehow the Muslims won! 314 ordinary men defeated an army of 1000 soldiers - a divine victory. This was known as the Battle of Badr.

The Meccans didn’t rest in their persecution of the Muslims though, they just couldn’t live knowing Muhammad still lived, they wanted him dead and the Muslims annihilated, and know they were even more enraged having been defeated by the Muslims at Badr. They mustered an army of 3000 men to march to Yathrib for war on the Muslims. This battle was to be called the Battle of Uhud, and took place in a valley outside Yathrib - the old Muhammad had to get up again to fight to protect his people and justice. Despite being in the grasp of victory the Muslims were defeated, the Meccans left feeling vindicated. But for the Muslims this was a great blow, not only did their best warrior Hamza get killed and mutilated (uncle of Muhammad), but their prophet, Muhammad was almost killed to, they believed for a moment all was lost - but then came the call, ‘Muhammad lives!’ This infuriated the pagans more, they thought they had killed him but it wasn’t to be.

Later that year a famine struck Mecca, the people were suffering and had little food. When Muhammad found out about the troubles in Mecca, he immediately sent for a caravan of food to be sent to Mecca, and it was. Muhammad despite all the persecutions of Mecca against him and his people, despite the fact that Mecca killed and tortured many of his followers and his uncle Hamza, despite the fact they almost killed Muhammad himself, he still loved them, “love your enemy as you would love your self.”

In Medina the head Jewish rabbi of the city, Abdullah ibn Salam became Muslim, this caused outrage and discontent amongst the various Jewish tribes. The Jewish angst and opposition against Muhammad started to rise. Many plotted to assassinate Muhammad but failed, many tried to stir up revolts and war against Muhammad but failed. The consequences resulted in those found guilty of treason to be exiled, two big Jewish tribes were escorted out of the city and to the province of Khaibar. Various other Jewish tribes remained in Medina.

Despite Muhammad’s show of grace, the Meccans still hated him and wanted him and the Muslims dead. They mustard another army, this time from all over Arabia. An army of about 10,000 men was raised and marched towards Medina.

Part 3 to come shortly.

Part 3:

An army of 10,000 men were on their way to annihilate the Muslims in Medina. News got to Muhammad soon, the people started dispering, but then a Persian Muslim gave them an idea. He’d said in Persia they did something called digging trenches to protect the cities from an onslaught, and on from hearing the idea Muhammad immediately sanctioned the operation to dig a trench around most of the city. He knew there was no way Medina could withstand an army of 10,000 men. Muhammad himself got into the trenches and helped in the digging. The Muslims came across a rock which was hard to remove, Muhammad came in to help remove it himself. As he was breaking the rock, when he first struck it, he saw a revelation that Al-Sham (middle-east - Palestine/Syria ect) fell to the Muslims, the second time he struck the rock he saw a revelation where Persia fall to the Muslims, the third time he struck the rock he saw Yemen fall to the Muslims.

The army of the 10,000 pagan Arabs was soon outside Medina. They were known as the confederates as it was a coalition of different Arab tribes from around Arabia. They found the trench and were shocked, they never before had seen trenches and thought this was very unfair of the Muslims. The Confederates tried for days upon days to jump over the trench but failed. The army were getting very frustrated and angry at their failure. The Leader of the army was Abu Sufiyan, who was now the leader of Mecca, he refused to give up, he wanted one thing more than anything else - the death of Muhammad!

Unknown to the Muslims, the Meccan’s had agreed a pact with one of the Jewish tribes of Medina, they agreed that the Jewish tribe would attack the city from the back end and the pagans from the front. Weeks now had passed and the pagan army were not progressing much, they went for one last push and just as they were the whether worsened immensely and left many of them frightened and morally drained, they gave up and had no choice but to go back home. God had delivered the Muslims once more.

Some time later Muhammad had seen a revelation where he was standing in the Ka’ba in Mecca with the keys of the shrine is his hands. This prompted Muhammad and the Muslims to go for the pilgrimage to Mecca (Hajj) and pay tribute and worship to God. When the Muslims got to Mecca, the pagans stopped them, and a peace treaty between the Muslims and the pagans was agreed. The peace treaty called for an end to the hostility between the pagans and the Muslims, each could carry on with their own way of life in security and the Muslims could come for the Hajj from the following year. This peace treaty was to last for 10 years. An amazing turn around after years of hostility. However peace didn’t last too long, within a year of the treaty, the pagans broke it and massacred a group of Muslim Bedouins outside Mecca. When Muhammad found this out he sent a message to the Meccan’s straight away, the message called for, either the perpetrators pay blood money for the deceased Muslims, or the surrender of Mecca or and end to the treaty. The Meccan’s responded by choosing to end the treaty. Muhammad took the initiative, the number of the Muslims had been growing exceedingly over time and Muhammad marched to Mecca with an army of 10,000 men.

When Mecca found out that Muhammad was on his way with such a large army, they knew they had no chance, they had lost the long war against Muhammad and his God. Muhammad came to the city and Abu Sufiyan surrendered to city to him. Abu Sufiyan and other pagans asked Muhammad what he was going to do to the pagans now? They who had killed and tortured many Muslims, and even Muhammad’s own uncle and friends. Muhammad asked them, what would they do if the situation was reverse and the Pagans were over the Muslims, the pagans replied “we would of killed you all.” Muhammad replied to Abu Sufiyan and told him: “you are free to go, no one will persecute you.” Abu Sufiyan, was so shocked by Muhammad’s mercy and grace, which was so un-Arab-like, he felt overwhelmed and embraced Islam. The Kab’a was clensed of all the idols that were inside it and made solely for the worship of the only real God, the God of Abraham.

Finally now Muhammad was leader of Mecca and the Muslims were at peace. Muhammad was now seen as the recognised leader of much of Arabia and the golden age of Islam started. Aged 60, Muhammad now could of put his feet up and relaxed but then came the revelation from God: “We have not sent you ( Muhammad) except as a giver of glad tidings and a Warner to all mankind, but most of men know not.” - Qur’an 34:28. The Revelation prompted Muhammad to send letters to all the nation leaders around him inviting them to Islam and the Mercy of God. Letters to the Cesar of Byzantium, emperor of Persia, Yemen and Egypt were sent.

At the age of 63, Muhammad went for what would be known as his last Hajj pilgrimage. At the Pilgrimage he gave what was his last sermon. In it he said:

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, An Arab has no superiority over a none-Arab, nor a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black any superiority over white, except in piety and good action. Learn every Muslim is a brother of every Muslim, and that Muslims constitute to one brotherhood. Remember, one day you will appear before Allah and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not astray from the path of righteousness after I am gone. O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness O Allah, that I have conveyed Your message to Your people.”

Shortly after the Hajj, Muhammad died in his little house next to the mosque in Medina. Umar, one of the companions of Muhammad became inconsolable and hysterical, he refused to believe that Muhammad was dead. Abu Bakr, Muhammad’s closed friend, came up and addressed the people and to bring Umar to sense, he said: “if any of you worshipped Muhammad, know that he is dead, but if any of you worship God, then know that He is alive and never dies.”

And so ended the life of Muhammad, the most profound and influential man in history, but his legacy lives on.

"Those who believe and do righteous good deeds, and believe in that which is sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord - He will expiate from them their sins, and will make good their state." Qur'an 47:2

The Importance of understanding sura Ikhlas from the Qur'an:

“Say: He is Almighty God the Unique-and-Absolutely-One,
Almighty God the self-sufficient Master (Whom all creatures need),
He neither begets, nor was He begotten,
And there is nothing like unto Him, He is Unique-and-Absolutely One” - Qur'an: 112 Sura Ikhlas

The Judeo-Islamic perception of God is of an Almighty and Absolutely One God. Absolute pure monotheism. This perception of God means, He resembles nothing in His creation at all, not even for a moment. He never transforms into an Angel or a burning bush or anything, He remains God, a Holy Spirit, and we must worship Him in Spirit, I believe the Gospels say that too.

It is the Muslim notion that God is Natural, not some powerful sorcerer in heaven, but He is Natural to His Own Nature. By His Nature, He is the Creator, so He did what came Naturally to Him, He created! By His Nature He is the Sustainer, so He did what came Naturally to Him, He sustained His Creation. By His Nature He is Eternal, so He has no Beginning or End, He just cannot die, ever, it goes against His Nature. By His Nature He is the Unseen, so we cannot see Him, God cannot be the Seen and the Unseen all at the same time, it would be a contradiction of His Nature.

In the Old Testament of the Bible, it conveys God as profusely reiterating the importance of the Unity of God and His Uniqueness of being Unseen. Even time after time many amongst the Children of Israel would turn to the worship of idol’s like Baal, He would send Prophets and Messengers to rebuke them and remind them that their God is not the God of stone or earthly materials, but a Heavenly one. The prophet Elijah (pbuh) is also recorded to have said to the Children of Israel: “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God follow Him” 1 Kings 18:21.

Strict and pure monotheism is stated in the first Commandment given to prophet Moses (pbuh) and reiterated similarly by Jesus the Christ (pbuh) as reported in the Gospels of today. “Hear O Israel your Lord is but One Lord…”

It is considered as an ungodly act in Judaism and Islam for God to take the form of His creation, it is unnatural to Him, because He is the Unseen, and Unique, He cannot be Unseen and Seen at the same time. Just like it is against God’s nature to lie and cheat and die, it is against His Nature to become part of His creation by resembling it. To us, even our Jewish brethrens it would be a breaking of the Commandments. According to the Bible, God does not like any idols or worshiping of them, but as soon as God becomes flesh, He becomes a form of idol, made from earthly materials. The reason why God is a Unique God is because He refuses to have Himself restricted to an image, He will not be allowed to be drawn or sculpted. Because this is what all the pagan people do, they make images of their gods, of stone, wood and metal etc, and tell stories of how the gods came down to earth and became part of the creation and even procreated with the creation, these are the pagan concepts of God. If God becomes a physical image on earth, then He reduces Himself to the same things the pagans say about their gods. It is mainly for this reason why Islam and Judaism rejects and ideology that God can become part of His creation and that man can become God incarnate, to us it is impossible for God to do, because it goes against His Nature.

This is one of the reasons why we reject Jesus the Christ (pbuh) as God or God incarnate. Our Christian brethrens talk about Christ Jesus (pbuh) being the Word of God, we agree, he was a Word of God, but the Qur’an tells us what the Word of God is in it’s context; “Be! And it is!” The Word of God, is His Decree, His Order, His Power. God Decreed Jesus to be conceived and He was. The Qur’an says the similitude of Jesus, is that of Adam, and God beforehand said to the clay of Adam “Be!” and Adam came into being. This is a beautiful way the Qur’an explains the Word of God is a particular context. Adam was of dust and clay, God sent His word to him and the clay became flesh, exactly the same way God sent His Word to the womb of Mary (pbuh) and the Word became flesh there.

Adam and Jesus (pbut) are the same in unique creation, and Adam isn’t God, so we believe neither is Jesus (pbuh).

This post has been edited by Elijah on Jul 3 2007, 06:49 PM