So when I first came on the server I jumped right into Chameleon Assassin as I thought this would have the best sniper weapons on the mod. After playing with it for a while I was not impressed and started to ask people on the server what they sniped with.

I then started playing with Titan and was using the standard version of the weapon and found myself being low on boost or dying to others firing the same weapon faster. Once I changed to enhanced I found that the rifle was a bit on the strong side only having to charge the weapon for 1-2 second and letting go to kill any armor.

I know I am probably biased since I played shifter for a very long time. Yet the more I thought about it after playing here for the past month, the more I find it weird that a Heavy Armor has such a wide range over other Armors. Also the engineer has a stronger sniper rifle then the Chameleon Assassin.

For example, Titan has such a wide variety of weapons. Close, Medium, Long Range. All around having the widest variety to choose from. I think the enhanced particle beam is a great idea to the server for a heavy to have though. Charging it up to take out defense is great, before coming in to Nuke or destroy a base. Yet I don't think it should be the number 1 sniping class in the mod.

My suggestion would be to add a laser rifle to Chameleon Assassin and keep the sniper rifle that the armor has the same. Have the laser rifle able to kill light armors in 1 hit, take medium armors down to 25%, and Heavies to 50-60% so you have to follow up with a sniper round on 2 of the armors to kill them. Then you will be able to remove the sniping players from Titan and leave it to more of a base rush/medium range armor. This would in turn balance the armors out a bit. I just find it extremely funny dancing around in heavy while sniping, and then at last minute changing and rushing the base.

this has been discussed many times

I posted that because I didn't see anything in the forums about those specific changes. Is there a forum you can point me to so I can view and take a look at what players thought?

This doesn't explain much to me. What was discussed? Who discussed it? What did players think.. etc etc. These were the things I was looking for.

Sorry. He just meant that it had been discussed many times on many different forums. And it has, but I'm still willing to discuss it with ANY tribes player :).

Your suggestion, of making chameleon stronger, is a bad one (IMO).

I do agree with you (maybe indirectly) that the titan is overpowered. However, the chameleon armor is as strong as it can be without over-doing it.

There is no doubt (IMO) that the titan build is a bit... overpowered, but that is nothing that I can't deal with in other armors, especially titan or (especially especially builder!).

And I believe most other figures in charge of the server are most certainly interested in other's viewpoints and opinions, but trust me, building up cham armor is not the solution.

Cham armor is SOOOOO much worse than an overpowered titan. I can deal (as a builder) with any titan coming (2 quick shots then i can keep building my D), but chams can be invis, sneaky, and adding overpowered weapons to them just makes the mod completely unbalanced.

Anyways, a bit drunk writing this, but I hope we can continue this nice dialogue of what people consider wrong with the mod, in a constructive sense.

This mod will (likely) never be what I remember and love it as, but we can try our hardest to bring that back :) :) :) :)

I had a discussion with kang about snipiing last night...
My problem with sniping is that it's only fun for the sniper.
..For the person being sniped, it just frustrating.
No one likes to be continously killed by an enemy that in most cases is hiding like a coward and can't even be seen or defended against.

Door-sniping and spawn-sniping is the worst. This doesn't require any skill or effort. You just sit and wait for your enemy to show up where you know he'll be and push a button to kill him. LAME.
You might as well add a Tantalus Field to the mod.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tantalus_field

Where's the challenge? Where's the fun of putting your skill up against another player's?
Snipers suck the fun out of every map, and If I had my way, the sniper rifle would be weakened or eliminated entirely.

im willing to bet that anyone who says cham armor isn't strong enough is playing in software mode

ok i admit i am sorry for pwning so much in titan but from now on

i promise i will tone it down on the pwn ok ;)

also i have found if u keep zooming towards a direction of an invisible enemy it shows the red thing right above their head but u have to be precise where the enemy is or it wont work. reason i say this BECAUSE i made sum pretty badass shots against Blue the other day and i know he was gettin suspicious. but just tryin to clear that up buddy ggs <3

blue's a badass in trolling the map in cham. I hate runnin into that guy in any armor.

I'm not a fan of the sniping either, but I'd be more okay with it if there were just more alternatives. I'm a big Troll user nowadays. I can't snipe like I used to, my wrist just doesn't like.. Work as good as it used to I dunno. It's harder for me to lead my targets especially since I would just use 20x zoom or no scope. But the major reason I quit sniping was because it just got boring. It's so much fun to do in titan dueling, but in a regular game I just feel like a cheap asshole.

Anyways Troll armor is by far the best armor duh. I'm convinced annihilation mod was designed just so the troll armor could be born. Super mobility, best all around weaponry, superior to any armor indoors, and just.. ya know.. fear inducing. Now watch ero and evil talk shit :wave:

If we're going to compare armor to weapons. The Angel has the weakest armor and the weakest weapons, how about turning up the damage on the soul grabber to even the odds a little? Hmmmmm.....? Des out

Nothing, and I mean nothing, in this mod beats a long distance no scope particle beam, especially against angels or through the fog. That right there makes me feel like my heavy is wearing sunglasses and smokin a cuban.

Coming in close second is clearing out 5 or more people with a detpack. That is very satisfying as well.

Zorak thanks for the post, that's the kind of response I was looking for.

Erowid, I really am only referring to sniping. Going invisible with another sniper weapon may be a bit overpowered but things can always be changed.

Now I want to know why you think Chameleon is overpowered as well? Just for the fact you can turn invisible? Why not change the beacon to something else that isn't overpowered and add a pack for Chameleon that turns invisible but you can't equip the laser rifle as you need an energy pack.

What about changing the charge damage down a bit on the Enhanced particle beam, and players have to use Standard. That may balance out Titan a bit more as well. It's like why even use Standard when Enhanced does so much damage with little charge time.

There is always alternatives to everything. Thanks everyone for your feedback.

Chams can bypass *all* defense effectively and enter locations that are otherwise locked down.

BR is the de facto sniper edit. There are other servers, such as PB that are more forgiving to non snipers, but not by much.

Annihilation should never cater to a players lack of skill. Nerfing weapons/armors because of another players superior skill is not the right way to do things. The mod should be aimed at raising the bar of possibility, not holding players back.

There need to be more alternatives to sniping. Pyro for instance uses a warrior loadout with a shield pack. Thats one way he gets at snipers without himself sniping. I use troll and its mobility can often close the distance between myself and a sniper before I can be hit. Still, against a skilled player like ero or tree there is often nothing I can do but snipe back at them.

Phase shifting necro can be effective, but not often. Almost any other armor you use you will be forced to become a sniper or be trampled upon by snipers. Emwej, Stankdrive and Bloodlust are three of the mods best tank users, but even they cant stand up very well to a pro ass Titan sniper.

My idea to enable MA mortar hits was one idea to help, but we need more.

If you don't like sniping, I hear renegades is hiring. Anni should remain a snipers mod. Builder armor is an even match to titan, so is necro and cham when invisible.

yeah renegades is a mountain of cockadoody. I think I'll just keep getting better at smashing on you snipers with Troll :finger:

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that all snipers are skilless fun-sucking cowards,
I've seen S_hift's demo. He's all over the place, putting himself out there and still kicking ass with a sniper rifle. He's fun to play against because going up against him is a battle of skill, not hide and seek.

..just one example of someone that knows how to snipe with class.

You said earlier that in most cases it's someone hiding and door sniping. That just isn't true. It's a minority of players who do these things. Most snipers are out in the field.

I am always out in the field sniping. This thread has nothing to do with catering to Skill, in fact I am asking to make it harder.. not easier. I just don't think a sniper rifle should kill all armors with one hit.

The rail gun has a fast reload time. Almost fast enough to get 2 shots off as fast as 1 charged pbeam shot. So you think the heavier, slower titan should shoot slower than the smaller faster builder? There's only a handful of baller titans out there now, if rockin' the titan were so easy how come everyone doesn't do it? And im sorry to say, but if you take away titan, everyone will migrate to builder, and we'll be in the same place all over again.

Apparently you don't read Erowid. I was giving suggestions to equalize armors not remove them.

Anyways thanks for everyone's thoughts on the suggestion, now I know where the player base stands here on BR.

smaller armor weaker health, weaker cells, basic intuition.

lemme break it down son

necromancer = death ray - 3-4 shots to kill stuff
chameleon assassin = sniper rifle - 2-3 shots to kill stuff
builder = 1-2 shots to kill shit
titan = mostly 1 shot to kill


necromancer is probably the slowest of the light armors but has the most flexibility.

chameleon assassin is the fastest recovery rate. meaning you can fly high and farther than any other sniper (most of the noobs at least).

builder sets defenses and can carry any deployable object. The railgun is a weapon powered by magnetic propulsion of course it fucking ownz.

the titan has the strongest weapon cause thats how it is, its a particle beam. charged particles traveling at the speed of light. In reality this weapon would obliterate anything in its path. the minor annoyance its causing you is only a mere fraction of the havoc it can wreak.

so what is stronger?

energy cell based death ray?
gun powder projectiles?
magnetic propulsion rifles?
or a fucking particle beam?


*so this is what they pretty much do*
necromancer [ omgz!!11 i can shoot rapid lasers!! and go through walls!]
chameleon assassin [ oh i can fly and stuff and turn invisible. cute ]
builder [ I can farm shit and snipe any med armor in one shot kill ]
titan [ I can fuck up your base and tear shit up, but I'm kind of slow... ]

good post bro.

Still takes 2 normal rail shots to kill another builder, which is a med armor.

Also, I don't think cham camping and sniping should be encouraged, as the better use of the armor is to infiltrate the enemy base, and kill people and D, like an assassin.

Golly... I thought you would have liked mine more.

seems to me like people just need to learn how to move more... you get on that server, grab a flag, and do a route, the whole other team is like how the F is he moving so fast? xD
Even though I hate gettin spawn raped by that damn pbeam, it is a part of the mod, I wish it would be changed, but ya gotta accept the fact that most people like it where it is, so it ain't goin anywhere. <_<

Yup Shadowraith I agree, it's always good to throw something out there to be seen and talked about rather then just sit back and wait for change. I knew a lot of players probably wouldn't like the idea, but I wanted some perspective as to why and I got it. I have fun here so I want to contribute and help the community grow and stay strong. Might as well test the waters a bit eh :)

Snipers are the original reason I starting using Angel. I could get to them fast, even if there were more than one, and harass and kill them. At least Angel can distract the sniper and give my team a chance to get out the door. Still wish the soul grabber would hit a little harder to even up for the snipers rifle.

I think it was perrin who originally suggested giving the tank a defensive lockdown beacon, sort of like in halo reach. That idea in itself would help even the playing field a bit. And why should pbers care if any other armor is buffed a bit (not having anything to do with sniper weapons)? As long as the pb or titan is not nerfed a user (ERO) should have no complaints.

There's only 4 sniper weapons in the mod but they seem to get all the consideration and attention. Sniping is an integral part of the mod yes but this is overkill.

sniping has been around since day one and will stay. If you ever watch me when im actually in titan im running killing stragglers on the ground or im raping your base. Never will i door snipe cuz i think its te absolute noobiest thing anyone can do...

shit I'll do it if it was done to me... Its the bully effect :stab:

Let's just make the whole mod titans and builder.

I think sniping makes sense the way it is. It may not be what people are used to if they haven't played the mod before and expect the light armor to be the sniper. Yeah titan can one shot anyone, but they are also a huge target and slow. When a titan is camping and killing d they usually do not last long once spotted.

What really makes the beam such a good weapon is the fact that it instantly reaches the target meaning if someone is flying through the air at 200mph all you have to do is put your cross airs right onto them and fire, which is easier then hitting fast moving in the air players with the railgun or sniper rifle.

how about if a emp is thrown you cant use phase disruptor

Well the phase disruptor doesn't take any energy from the player, like the particle beam does, so that wouldn't make much sense.

I've spent most if not all of my tribesing in mods, so I go to base and see that laser is weak sauce, not for me.

If I play base I'll rape with the nade+disc+laser rifle or plasma disc nades :)

On a serious note: I think a more "humane" way to check the power of the pbeam is to have it only be functional with an energy pack. Put a stop to the shield-rocket jump-repair pack faggotry.

It has an energy pack built in.