The historical teams have a lot of world in Athens and Piraeus! More they are lies….I dedicate to you the following elements for the supposedly champions in Greece!:P
The final test! And Europe solves it...
If you hear stories about "greatness", tell paraga to read this page.
The inevitable truth: Europe. If what we suggested in the previous pages was wrong, those numbers would never add up. But numbers don't lie, and Europe doesn't lie about who our representatives are.
From 1960 (when Greece sent teams to Europe for the first time) until 2005 (included)
(* Only teams with 20 or more games appear here for statistical reliability)
(* For fairness, qualifying from a Champions League round counts once if you come second and double if you come first)
POK and the Rest
TOTALS
TABLE 1
appearances passed first round % Passed more than one round %
pao 42 20 47.6190% 7 16.6667%
osfp 43 17 39.5349% 4 9.3023%
aek 35 21 60.0000% 8 22.8571%
POK 120 58 48.3333% 19 15.8333%
Paok 28 13 46.4286% 5 17.8571%
Aris 14 6 42.8571% 1 7.1429%
Panionios 7 5 71.4286% 1 14.2857%
Ofi 5 4 80.0000% 2 40.0000%
Non POK 54 28 51.8519% 9 16.6667%
Initial Observations on TABLE 1:
It is broken in 2 groups. One has the POK. The second has teams with 20 or more appearances, so it holds water statistically. Notice that the second group has played 54 appearances, more than POK individually, so statistically the results are very sound.
To make a long story short, the second group together has a better presence in Europe than the POK teams. Only aek stands tall among POK. Anyone thinks we sending the wrong teams to Europe yet? Wait, there is more...
But what if paraga claims that the above is not fair, since POK had to mainly compete in champions cups while the others mostly in UEFA and cup holder's cup? Let's see when we compare only UEFA and Cup holder's appearances:
POK and the Rest
UEFA and CUP Holder's
TABLE 2
appearances passed first round % Passed more than one round %
pao 21 9 42.8571% 3 14.2857%
osfp 23 12 52.1739% 3 13.0435%
aek 23 14 60.8696% 7 30.4348%
POK 67 35 52.2388% 13 19.4030%
Paok 25 12 48.0000% 5 20.0000%
Aris 14 6 42.8571% 1 7.1429%
Panionios 7 5 71.4286% 1 14.2857%
Ofi 5 4 80.0000% 2 40.0000%
Non POK 51 27 52.9412% 9 17.6471%
Things become even worse for pao and osfp in TABLE 2!
You can make so many obvious conclusions here, which cannot be disputed, that you almost feel funny about all those "rumors" being true.
pao: The numbers drop even worse. Why? Simple. pao finds itself in Europe even when it has no business being in Europe. pao plays there almost every year, even if it has to scratch its way through a UEFA or Cup appearance. The pathetic results speak volumes about the push that it receives to make sure that Europe is never missed. Too much money involved.
osfp: Although still pathetic with European standards, osfp is more respectable when playing in UEFA/Cup. Why? Because this is exactly where it belongs most of the time. You see, osfp has often a respectable team for Greek standards which belongs to the 3-4 first positions. But it rarely belongs to the top. And since it is pushed often to the championship, it goes mostly to the champions league where it cannot compete. But if it was left alone and was competing in UEFA/Cup, it would have better European results. Conclusion? Many undeserving Greek championships.
aek: Clearly the best among the pathetic results of POK. Why? Why is it that aek manages to be respectable abroad? Because it does not receive nearly the push that the other two enjoy in the Greek championship. For the most part, aek finishes where it deserves in the standings, maybe a push every now and then. But the discrepancies between Greek showings and European ones are much smaller with aek than pao or osfp. By looking at those results, one concludes that aek has easily been the best POK team since 1960.
Can you imagine those numbers, if one was to put aek in the second group, and instead of POK vs others, to compare PO vs others... Hmm, let's do that! Get ready for some very pathetic findings soccer fans. By the way, since numbers tell us that aek seems NOT to be a big part of the power abuse, we will use PO from now on and not POK -- and also spell aek as Aek.
Let's do it and see...
PO and the Rest
TOTALS
TABLE 3
appearances passed first round % Passed more than one round %
pao 42 20 47.6190% 7 16.6667%
osfp 43 17 39.5349% 4 9.3023%
PO 85 37 43.5294% 11 12.9412%
Aek 35 21 60.0000% 8 22.8571%
Paok 28 13 46.4286% 5 17.8571%
Aris 14 6 42.8571% 1 7.1429%
Panionios 7 5 71.4286% 1 14.2857%
Ofi 5 4 80.0000% 2 40.0000%
Non PO 89 49 55.0562% 17 19.1011%
God, paraga looks lonely and pathetic up there in TABLE 3, doesn't it? Well, they proudly declare themselves the top Greek teams, they deserve to be at the top :-) Too bad Europe does not think so...
But see below. You would expect the two dominant teams of Greece to represent Greece better than the others, when playing in the lowly UEFA or CUP Holder's. After all, they are made for championships -- not UEFA, right? Guess again. Here we go...
PO and the Rest
UEFA and CUP Holder's
TABLE 4
appearances passed first round % Passed more than one round %
pao 21 9 42.8571% 3 14.2857%
osfp 23 12 52.1739% 3 13.0435%
PO 44 21 47.7273% 6 13.6364%
Aek 23 14 60.8696% 7 30.4348%
Paok 25 12 48.0000% 5 20.0000%
Aris 14 6 42.8571% 1 7.1429%
Panionios 7 5 71.4286% 1 14.2857%
Ofi 5 4 80.0000% 2 40.0000%
Non PO 74 41 55.4054% 16 21.6216%
Can you spell P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C? Those two are a total disaster, no matter where you put them (TABLE 4). Every time we try to re-arrange it, they get worse!
Ok folks. Enough making our point. Just one last thought: If Greece is represented by a team outside the paraga, we have an 11.5% better chance of passing the first round and an 7.2% better chance of going even higher! (TABLE 3). Maybe pao and osfp should be banned from Europe for 5 years, so we can restore ourselves in the UEFA point scale.
Or even better, maybe the fans of those 2 teams, DEMAND from their organizations to create a fair and competitive Greek championship where the other teams can flourish. Stop counting your trophies. They are rigged for life. They are as rigged as elections in Zimbabwe. It is as if you are proud to win games that the other teams had their hands and legs tied up. They mean nothing and numbers tell you that. Get up and tell your leaders to stop underestimating your intelligence. Tell them to return the "paraga" titles, the "flower" titles, the "Paok-Panachaiki 3-5" titles, the Ethnikos-Puskas titles. Say goodbye to the "European" pao or the "Greek master" osfp. Looks like the only team among the three which remotely deserves its domestic re****tion is Aek.
The shame is not with osfp, pao or their management. If anyone else was in their place, they would probably be as corrupt. Power and money is hard to resist. The shame is with the Greek authorities, who run soccer the same way they run everything else: A paraga made for their pockets and votes.
And since now we know how those titles were won, beyond ANY doubt and above all rumors, you can visit another Greek championship table, with the 3 first every year, much closer to the truth if this was England and not Greece. See it here. Make sure you come back though, for the big surprise is coming further below...
Here are some of the excuses from osfp and pao for those numbers:
- pao has gone to the European final and that's what matters: It went to the final having 2 wins, 2 ties and 2 losses, oh and 2 more wins in the first round against Jeunesse d'Esch from Luxemburg. Some others in the European finals: Red star, Marseille, Steaoua, Sampdoria, Briz, Malmoe and others. Those are not monsters, just good teams. And so was 1971 pao. And pao had the best coach in Greek history in Puskas, who helped them overachieve. But we will not take away this pao success. We will not suggest any of the Junta bribe stories, since we have no proof. Actually Red Star lost many chances to score in the last 10 minutes of the 3-0 game in Athens, including hitting the post at the 89th minute. Nobody said that pao or osfp do not have good teams from time to time. Absolutely. Just not ALL the time, as history suggests. Just remember, if you play there EVERY year, sooner or later you will get lucky mathematically.
- osfp is unlucky in Europe: Numbers don't lie. If it was there once or twice, luck would have a lot to do with it. But 43 times?
- osfp has an inferiority complex in Europe: Yes. That's what happens when your players know they are not good enough to be there.
- osfp teams are built for Greece, not Europe: We guess that's right. And the opposite is true. If Barcelona was playing in Greece, they would never win the Greek championship -- they are built for Europe. God help us...
- both: We go there all the time, it's hard to sustain good results over the long term: Exactly the opposite! This is the only reason for a few good moments every now and then. Imagine if they didn't go there all the time, they would truly have nothing to show.
Some very funny moments come about, when you watch osfp and pao trying to prove to each other who is the better team, or even worse, who is the HONEST team! It is like watching Hitler and Stalin argue about who was more democratic... Just give the 80 trophies to charity and feed some poor kids in Uganda. There they can appreciate them. In Greece? They mean nothing.
The real reasons for the pathetic display in Europe.
The real reasons are above. Those are two average teams, which most of the time finish first or second! And the paraga tactics do not work in Europe. osfp found out the hard way in Patra on 1975 and got a taste of its own medicine. Palotai and Sorarits are the well known attempts. God knows the rest. This is not to suggest that the non PO teams would be bringing European cup after European cup. Greek team soccer sucks when compared to Europe. But the other teams certainly do, and would do, much better than our pathetic PO representatives.
Can you imagine which players people would know today if the right teams were allowed to shine? All those "stars" and "greats" and "legends", would be ordinary, average players. But that's what phony trophies do for you: Exposure and marketing.
Here is a quote from the great Hatzipanagis after he retired. It is from an interview to a British magazine:
"I regret not having made a career abroad. I would have liked to play in a better league, to have enjoyed football at that level, without the low level stuff that's going on in Greece. If I could turn back the clock, I would do some things differently."
Our soccer is third world soccer. And osfp with pao have a lot to do with, but are not the ones to blame. It is the EPO and Greek government's lazy, incompetent punks, who are scared for their next paycheck. The disturbing part is that the soccer paraga is just a representation of the bigger paraga: Our country.
To close this page, we will transfer a quote by Ferguson, Manchester United's coach: "In European competition you always have to play hard, regardless if you play against Ajax or against olympiakos".
So, we have to thank paraga for ridiculing us and humiliating us to the world year after year. Is it osfp's or pao's fault that they are Europe's laughing stock? Of course not. What do you expect them to do? Refuse the championships? It is the Greek powers to be who allow this travesty to take place for 80 years.
Soccer competition improves the product. Monopoly kills it. And if there is change, who will win? Greek soccer and Greek fans. In the long term, pao and osfp will also win and put better product on the field.
And now your big surprise... Representation of Cyprus (Apoel and Omonia) teams versus PO in UEFA and Cup Holder's. Are you ready?
PO and Cyprus
UEFA and CUP Holder's
TABLE 5
appearances passed first round %
pao 21 9 42.8571%
osfp 23 12 52.1739%
PO 44 21 47.7273%
Apoel 20 10 50.0000%
Omonia 14 7 50.0000%
Cyprus 34 17 50.0000%
Christos kai Apostolos re paraga! (Sorry our English speaking friends, this is hard to translate -- maybe "Jesus Christ re paraga!!!")
BRAVO Cyprus for proving our point for 20th time today.
PO, please, do us all a big favor. Literally build this paraga that we are telling you about, to have somewhere to put those trophies of your glorious history.
2004: We finally had a coach in the Greek National team who could not care less about the team you were coming from, and did not man the team with PO pretenders. You know how many paraga players the Euro 2004 champions starting team had? 3! Yes 3. The rest of the European champions were not good enough for them. They prefer the Brazilian leftovers of Europe. And that's exactly how many titles they deserved in Greece through 80 years; 3 out of every 11.
Good job Otto, brushing the paraga aside!
Amen brothers.
from
ethnikara 
