I've seen the wagons with wooden frames, and bolt on steel rolling stock, and I'm thinking something similar would be nice for my logging operation up north. Using green treat, and galv hardware would make it lower cost and maintenance than all steel. I could get some hot dipped angle for the framework that contacted the wood as well.

If I only had to transport the running gear, I wouldn't need to worry about size constraints or highway hauling either. I can only imagine what a whore towing something like that at speed would be. :o

Also, any reason (other than difficulty in manufacture/complexity of parts) to not make it 4 wheel steering? I figure you could put a receiver socket for the draw bar and just move it to the side you wanted to pull from that way. Might make it a little unstable on inclines I suppose.

Franz, before you go all ape shyt about logging arches - since I'm postponing my tractor purchase, I'll likely be building one of those as well. The wagon will be used for hauling smaller stuff in the sub 4' range (such as branches). I'm going to have to build a logging arch after all, since I'm getting a four wheeler first instead of a heavier piece of machinery. The big stuff will come later, after I have somewhere to put it up there. I can tow the wheeler back and fourth easy enough.

Yea, that will work. :D

Think about the wheels chained on to the back end off wooden Power Structures when they are transported!

Are you pulling this trailer with a four wheeler? :D :D :D

Since the pulling power will be a 4 wheeler, and given the known lack of WHOA power of said devices, Start hunting up a pair of rear axles from front wheel drive cars for the wagon.

I've stashed a plan for the 4 wheel steer, but it doesn't have a rear X steering lockout which I consider necessary. Operating at low speed in woods you can generally scuff a wagongear thru a tight turn anyhow. You can also put an arch over the rear of the wagon and or just block your logs up when you martial them with the logging arch and winch them onto the wagon.

As far as wood frame is concerned, even given that wood has greater strength per pound than steel, I don't like it. Have you got porcupine in the area? If so definitely stay away from wood.

For an arch a pair of front spindles from a pickup truck will make you a good one. You want the highest flotation tires you can find and the largest diameter as well. 2" pipe will pretty much frame the machine up with some smaller pipe for braces. Don't forget to install accommodations for safety chains, really sucks driving out from your load and leaving the log behind.

I haven't given much thought to the arch constuction yet, and am just begining to wonder about a woods trailer system.

I don't have the wheeler yet for that matter, but you're sorely mistaken on power options. Arctic Cat has a diesel unit that's detuned from the factory to pass smog. I've seen lots of reports of waking it up by tweaking the injection pump and timing, but I have yet to drive one. I'm still a little aprehensive about it, since the rpms max out at 3200 (and I have a mud pit to cross until I get a road built through it), but it's reported to pull anything not anchored with footings...

The other option is a 950cc v-twin that makes a paltry 48hp. That power is mitigated through a (friction) anti-shock clutch in the driveline, to prevent grenading the differentials. :o Those machines will pull a wheelie from 45mph. I'm about 20 hours from placing the order on that one (need to sleep on it more). I know you're limited to the power you can connect to the ground, but that machine has options for bigger tires without overworking the engine.


Arch or trailer - I'm going for big fatty tires with a square shoulder to maximize ground contact.

I haven't seen evidence of porky's on my land, but we do have them in the region. There's more of an issue with woody's girdling trees, but they're already infested with bugs at that point so I'm not so upset with them.

Power and power translating to traction on the ground can be 2 damn different things.

My Yanmar 240D has 24 horsepower coming from the engine, and can put that on the ground with sufficient efficiency to break a ring gear in the final. I did it. All that proved was I was $650- lighter in the wallet.

4 wheelers aren't built to pull, they're built to be overpriced toys for people making payments to ride around on.

You want to move wood set up to move wood.
Get a damn tractor that tops out around 8 miles an hour and pull wood.

I want to be able to play around with it as well. Take it to the stand for hunting, take it in the gravel pit, etc. That's why I don't want a tractor first. I'd also have to leave the tractor outside up there, where I can easily fit a wheeler in my garage and plow with it in the winter

The Deere dealer just got back to me and said the lead time on a new gator 825i was about 3 weeks. Now that's a tempting proposition. That machine has 50hp and is designed to work.

Payments aren't an issue. I've got a little extra in the note for this purchase. It'll all come out in the wash once the trees start hitting the ground. I can sustainably harvest enough wood to pay the loan off on schedule without exceeding the natural regrowth rate. That's before I take up the fuzz on the wildlife habitat incentive programs the dems stuffed into the farm bill. Granted, I wish that stuff wasn't out there (they're called cost share programs), but I paid in enough taxes over the years to not feel guilty about reclaiming some of that money.

If you're talking to a Deere dealer tell him you want to demo the green scrap metal. Any dealer worth sh!t will deliver a demo machine. They more than make up for it inthe cost of their mandated insurance while you're making payments.

Tell him no demo = NO SALE

Just admit you want a toy and move on.

IF you think you will be plowing snow with a 4 wheeler, see how well it pushes a hunk of log around. No log, find a barrier block and push that.

The urbanized deere dealer wouldn't let me take his new machine out for a spin, and as such I'm not buying one from him if I do go that direction. I'm headed up north here in a couple hours, and I know we've got a big green dealer on my way into town from the lake.

I need to cut a couple more trees down, hit all the trunks I've got cut with glyphosate (I'm guessing we cut at least a dozen sumac this winter), and burn the trash off (leaves, grass clippings, etc) before I go into town to look at machines.

Been playing around a bit before heading out, and found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPuqbXtz93U

Granted, the rock is relatively smooth, and not cemented in a hole (like normally they would be), but the machine doesn't even shrug.

Pulling with an RV eh.

Go with a trailer. It will be handier in the Woods. Much easier to back up especially in muck conditions.

To really make a job of it put a grapple on the trailer or mount a generator on the tongue and use a winch for loading.


You can also use the trailer to haul the RV.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_imag...log_trailer.jpg


http://www.qualipro.ca/trailer.htm

Comon now Egon, JT might be a suburban kid, but he dang sure ain't one of them yuppie weekend loggers. He also ain't got the Cadillac pickup and a ton of money.

An ATV can only haul so much log, so he'd be a lot better off with a set of bunks set up on a sliding axle so they could be a 2 wheel trailer with a tongue plugged in the front into a Reese receiver. Then he could put a pin on the bottom of the reciver tube and make himself a dollie with a long tongue the pin could plug into and have a wagon for when he has a heavy load.

He could even build the dollie with an extending shock absorbing tongue, and a 5th wheel that tilts in one direction to minimize torquing on the log bunk part of the wagon. The shock absorber would save a lot of wear on the towing machine.

I'd probably set the bunks up for side loading so they could just swing down and become loading ramps so logs could be rolled on with either a winch or a cant hook.

You make the bunk up right the dollie sits on top of it going back into the woodlot empty and you're pulling a trailer. He could even put some rollers on the back bunk for loading small diameter logs without too much trouble. One bunk can be on a pivot with a couple shock absorbers and stops so it minimizes problems to the setup from torquing as the load goes over rough ground. I've seen a number of wagongears tore up by torque going through ditches.

I'm going with a pintle hitch (have one on the shelf already anyway) so torquing shouldn't be an issue.

I'm not moving any 2' logs with my four wheeler. I'll hold out for a tractor for that. Mainly, I just need to be able to get them from where they fall to where I'll process them.

I do like the idea of a side mount winch and bunk rails that pivot to make a ramp, but I'm not talking about using the trailer for full logs.

Having an articulating axle (like a front tractor beam) makes a lot of sense.


Yesterday I put a deposit down on a single seater 2010 Arctic Cat 700 efi Mud Pro. It's got a lot of ground clearance, and the dock guys use them around here due to the low gearing. I'll be picking it up next weekend, when the trailer I'm hauling (this is my buddy's trailer) isn't full of wood.



This is less than 2 medium size ash trees and some sumac trunks. I didn't bring my chains with me, so I had to leave about 15' of a 12" trunk behind (didn't feel like getting wet to cut it up or haul it out). That's not really a bad thing either, since this load is free for a buddy who hosts bonfires in his back yard all summer, and I was close enough to resting the frame on the axle as it was.

Below is one view of my swamp from the beach road (I have 400' of road frontage). I need to clear out enough of the suckers to make a trail to the high ground on the back side (eventually to become my driveway and filled in, with a culvert), and then probably clear the debris with a loader. There's a lot of dead wood below the leaves on the ground, and this year the water is right to below those leaves. It's up about 4" from where it was last fall. Either way, I'm gonna be stuck working in waders to get it done this spring.

[QUOTEIf I only had to transport the running gear, I wouldn't need to worry about size constraints or highway hauling either. I can only imagine what a whore towing something like that at speed would be. [/QUOTE]

Got me confused now.

You gotta haul the RV around on something or does it fit in the P/U bed?

Trailer can do double duty. Don't need the box as shown in the one picture.

Trailer tows easy on the highway.

Bunks, rollers and ramps ain't hard to put on.

Grapple will save a lot of back aches. Around where I live they are very common.

If you gotta have a wagon just buy a plain old Farm wagon. They are not expensive and come in lots different weight ratings.

Different gear E, different gear...

I'm not talking about carting my wheeler back and fourth to the cabin on a hay wagon. :P I was merely discussing the possible difficulties of transporting something built to completion from down here in the burbs, to 100 miles away up north. And how if I could assemble the final unit up there with locally procured lumber (10 miles away to the lumber yard there), it would mean I didn't need to haul the whole rig down the highway.

I'm not sure if I'll be building a trailer for the wheeler or just buying a crappy one (the bare parts cost more than the whole unit for small trailers). I can't fit it in the bed of my pickup, because I have a SUV. ;) The deciding factor is design - I'm not sure if I want to go nutso on a trailer now, or just get one and be done with it for a while. I've got a lot of obligations these days.

Looks like the chiwan's have decided against underselling everyone else in the cargo hauling arena these days. Building a trailer is far more economical than the kits are right now.

Now I see the light.

You gona have to have a trailer for the RV. It should also work for hauling logs. :D

JT upi really need to look at how a 2 bunk trailer is set up on a road tractor. Very minimal frame carrys a lot of log weight because the logs themselves become the structure when strapped to the bunks.

That design gives you maximum load every time and lowest possibility of breaking the hauler.

You can even make a removable deck if you desire by just fabbing a box that sits on the bunks.

Damn kits are all junk anyhow, you can buy a lot better pair of rear axles from FWD cars from somebody junking cars for 50 bucks including 2 wheels & tires. Junkers are only selling weight and they don't get paid for wheels or tires. 50 bucks should buy you 4 tires and 2 axles.

If I build a heavy trailer, it'll be one that can drop the deck to the ground and handle 7,000lbs.

The reason for not building a heavy trailer for the atv, is that I have to move it accross the yard every weekend I bring the machine up north. I've got no secure storage up there yet, so I'll be bringing the machine home with me. If I make a lightweight trailer, it'll act more like a dolly and I can roll the thing around with ease. The mrs is talking about getting a 125cc dirtbike like she used to have as a youngster, so I need a big enough deck to handle that (not a problem). The wheeler weighs 700#.

Interesting idea on the axles Franz. Something like that might be just the ticket for a single axle unit, radial tires suck on tandem trailers (they usually pull or wiggle). I haven't looked at trailer tires in years. I wonder if there's more availability in 15" sizes these days? Most cars stopped using 14" wheels in the 80's. Hell, my wheeler has 14" wheels stock...

You want the bad news or the worse news first JT?

I've got stuff built on 8" 12" 13" 14" and 15" tires. I have hub assemblies in stock I cut down years ago, complete with wheels.

Thanks to Presidential Engineering you damn near can't get 12" 13" 14" and 15" tires unless you go to heavy commercial grade tires that cost sufficiently to make you bleed from the eyeballs. Now every damn thing is either 16 or 17" low profile on mag wheels. LN's damn Hyundai Sonata has 16" rubber, at least it ain't low profile rubber.

The nice thing about getting a rear X from a car headed to the shredder is you can generally get all 4 wheels & tires since they gotta be removed anyhow, and the wrecker don't get paid for them.

My thinking is you'd be best off with a 2/4 wheel convertable rig that was either a trailer or a wagon as the mood strikes you. Put 2 bunks on it and you can easily haul 16 foot logs out, and you can load them easily with a winch and a canthook. Get them where you're staging and you can roll them off or drag them off by chaining the load to a tree.

Depending on how good your road back in is you can either go back in with a wagon or a trailer carrying the front X on the trailer for better maneuvering. The biggest thing about a wagon is torquing between the axles, and that can be easily solved. You have to have a solid between the front and back X though, NOT just the deck, or you'll rip the wagongear apart.

I have one I made 6 x 10 steel deck, and it doesn't weigh 600# empty. With good tires it will carry a ton easily.

If you wanted to use the same trailer for on and off road with a deck, it could be done too using an airbag suspension on the road and a pair of stifflegs to connect frame to X off road. When you get to the camp you deflate, unload and put the front X in place and you have a wagon. Worst case you'll need a tree with a block & tackle to help you switch over.

Of course that comes with the drawback, if you screw the trailer up in the woods hauling wood you have no way to get the toys home.

However you decide to go, don't forget Maine Trailer plates for nonresidents are real cheap, and they don't require inspections.

Two separate pieces of equipment in my mind - I'd never haul wood on a lightweight atv trailer. I can leave a logging trailer in the woods with little risk of it running away (access will be gated), but the more readily disposable toys aren't being left under a tarp.

Radial tires on dirt and pulling from the carcass rigidity are hardly worth discussing (non-issue). The problem is with the atv trailer on pavement, and any misalignment (due to whatever - wind, road conditions, incline, etc) causing the bloody thing to tug itself into oncoming traffic or the ditch.

You haven't built many trailers, have you?

I just came home with the cutest little tilting trailer you ever saw... 4x6' with 1200# payload capacity = $400 brand spankin new

I was looking at the price of components again (granted, my chosen wheel/tire combo would've cost another 50 over the pre-built units tire selection), and it was within 100 bucks assuming materials were reasonable (not sure what expanded steel is running these days) of what it would've cost to build it. For that, I chose the easy out and wrote a check.

The four wheeler will hang over front and back (the brush guards will stick out), and barely fit side to side, but it's easy to move and doesn't waste space. IOW, it gets the job done!

Wide footprint radials on trailers have always been a whore to tow. I didn't build them, I had to haul them just the same.

I really don't think it's going to get the job done. There's no room for the 125. The boss is going to be mad at you,

Charlie don't say anything, but I think JT is working a plan.

"Gee Hon there's no way to haul your bike along, so instead of buying yourself a bike maybe you should buy me a new chainsaw & log splitter".

I sure hope they threw a spare tire in on the trailer deal. JT won't be tolerable if he has to leave his trailer parked and go pay retail for a replacement tire, even if nobody steals his toy while he's tire shopping.

This is a git-r-done trailer. Something to move the machine in the interim while I work up a larger unit capable of hauling a couple cords of wood.

The mrs' got no money for a toy, and I have no desire to buy her one. The wheeler will be used to haul logs, and as such it's a tax deduction, just like the next chainsaw I buy. :)

Not sure dat Halfrican Prince with all the new IRS agents be allowin all dem bidnes deductions any more JT.