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Title: Just a little something I'm working on


JT Metalworks - July 2, 2009 05:06 AM (GMT)
Franz made me take a progress shot of the garage ceiling just to rub Jack's nose in what progress looks like. :lol:

Now this was done with the night framing on my camera as I don't currently have a functional lighting circuit in the garage. B) You'll notice the three sections of romex hanging at the corner of the truss - that's why. Rather than surface mounting the wiring like it had been, I decided to bring it all up above the ceiling, so all the wires need to pass through the steel as it goes in where the lights are.

user posted image

I'm also changing the layout a bit by moving the lights from the front entry door to the back wall before the breezeway. I used to have the 5 configured like an H with the light concentrated in the front of the garage, and now it'll be two rows, one of 2 and the other with three fixtures. The 3rd being left above the steps to the house entrance. With the white ceiling, it should help the throw of the existing fixtures.

Franzę - July 2, 2009 05:33 AM (GMT)
Don't forget JT bushings are required on all wire penetrations or Mr Codebook won't put his rubber stamp on the shyt.

Something looks crookid JT. Didn't you use your verneirs on that job?


JT Metalworks - July 2, 2009 05:45 AM (GMT)
Mr code book has already ok'd me to finish it out. I'm drilling holes directly through the light housings and then the tins, and then using the appropriate wire holding grommets. Since mr code book doesn't like ladders, I don't have much to worry about with him.

The framing to the house is crooked as hell - that's why the tins are loose in the spans. As they get closer to the common house wall, they get narrower. The angle makes the blocking in the storage level look a little kittywampus, but that's actually more square than the roof supports themselves. I didn't spend much time perfecting the angles of that blocking anyways - it's not going to be seen again once the tin goes up.

I could've ordered all the tin long enough to cut the appropriate angles on each and every piece, but that's far more work than I wanted to do for a mere garage ceiling. This is a function over form installation. The steel was chosen for weight and function first and foremost, with aesthetics a secondary concern. If OSB didn't cost nearly as much and still require paint, I would've gone that route. Sheetrock would've weighed in at 2000lbs, and the roof lacks support for that much weight. The trusses are on 4' centers with mere 2x6's spanning the 24' gap. I added in additional bracing and tied that in to the ceiling beams, but I still wouldn't subject it to that much static load. The steel is a dainty 270# for the whole ceiling.

tackit - July 2, 2009 09:46 PM (GMT)
I like that white ceiling, it's going to be a bright shop....

JT Metalworks - July 2, 2009 11:00 PM (GMT)
Tack, that's "the mrs" garage... I get the shop, she gets the garage. She actually believes you're supposed to park inside the house! :rolleyes:

I'll get to use it when doing engine work or customer cars and such, but for the most part it really is her space. The ceiling is just to provide the ability to effectively heat and cool it. I insulated and sheetrocked the walls last fall. I have no intentions of mudding anything other than the seams, and paint is flat out of the question.

My shop has a white 5/8" sheetrock ceiling. It was a lot of work to install, and it started out with square and plumb framing. I'd rather lick bamas balls than do rock on the garage ceiling.

JT Metalworks - July 2, 2009 11:58 PM (GMT)
user posted image

Today's progress.

I'm adding more lights after all. They've got some single T12 fixtures like I used in the attic for $11 a pop on clearance at homie d. I'm going to pick up a couple of those to run across the front of the garage. Best of all, they're made by jesus down in mexico instead of hung wan in china.

I need to get some of that flexible edging stuff to cover a recess I had to punch for the original junction box. I'd use some fuel line, but I doubt mr inspector would approve.

JT Metalworks - July 4, 2009 03:29 AM (GMT)
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So today I got the back section done, and the majority of the center section finished.

I'm still not certain how I intend to work around the ladder opening, but the sheets cut really nicely with the plasma cutter, and I've had good luck trimming the exposed edges with a regular cut-off disk (no burnt paint that way). I'm also pleased with how the not full width section looks against the inside wall. And I'm also happy with how the courses line up from after the break with the ladder section. You can see my witness mark on truss for the inside rib.

The lighting should be spectacular once all the fixtures are in. That ceiling helps a ton with reflecting the light back down.

Tomorrow should be pretty slow going. I've gotta modify the main garage door rail brackets to allow for the furring to be installed. I also need to figure out what to do about the ladder opening. On top of that, I have a couple customers coming over so it'll be hit or miss if I even spend much time working on the joint.

I am looking forward to being done with this crap. The insulation itch has gotten old fast.

tackit - July 4, 2009 12:42 PM (GMT)
Certainly does look like allot of work and a good job JT, you will be happy you did it when it's completed...

My shop's roof rafters are on 4' centers.. At one time i wanted to get the metal roof sprayed with insulation so I could keep the height and do the side walls with with styrofoam board and put the steel horizontal on the walls...

But that's a thing of the past, with no way to make a dime around here it would be senseless to invest the time and money... I piss around in the basement in the winter...



JT Metalworks - July 4, 2009 02:48 PM (GMT)
That spray in foam is expensive stuff. Contracting it done is astronomical, but even buying the kits from graingers would've cost $800 to do my tiny little garage.

It would've been nicer, because then the attic space would be much cooler for storage (and I wouldn't be itchy right now from the glass fibers), but it's not worth the pricetag.

tackit - July 4, 2009 03:09 PM (GMT)
I wanted it because it would have also sound proofed the tin roof when it rains.. just a small drizzle is to loud to think....

JT Metalworks - July 4, 2009 03:15 PM (GMT)
Any insulation will help with that, but you need to be sure the roof doesn't leak or you'll end up with a lake in your vapor barrier. The mrs has a friend with a really DUMB husband who's got black mold growing in the pole barn's insulation, yet he doesn't do anything about it. The vapor barrier collects water and you can see it pooled up there. He thinks since it doesn't drip on him, the roof is good to go!

Something else you might consider is rolling or spraying it with bedliner. Mass will damp the tin substantially.

Franzę - July 4, 2009 04:49 PM (GMT)
Tack the sound of rain pounding onthe tin roof is a reminder you ain't outside tryin to stay dry. Enjoy it. Many years back I screwed Masonite to the bottom of my roof perlins with lathers channel every 4 feet to cover the seams. 8" of air space between the steel and masonite provided a lot of insulation. When styrofoam peanuts were available by the truckload I blew a lot of them into the space as well. It was cost effective. The thing you gota worry about now is a lot of the packin peanuts that look like styrofoam are made from cornstarch. They will disolve and attract mice & rats.

JT if that fool has black mold it is already cooking off his brain and will kill him soon enough. That shyt ain't something you play with. I wouldn't walk in that place for a free truckload of money.

tackit - July 5, 2009 03:10 AM (GMT)
I had a guy come out to price an insulation job, his price was fine but he didn't want to first go around and seal the buildings corners and the sidings j track down at the bottom of the footing... I was willing to pay for it but he never called back...

I also told him I didn't want any drunken trash or newbies doing the work... might have turned him off to the job....

So be it.

JT Metalworks - July 5, 2009 04:02 AM (GMT)
Yeah, something about stating you have standards kinda scares some folks off. :(

I got all but the middle strip where the opener hangs from done today. Still haven't started on the front section, but that'll be tomorrow unless I take a day off.

JT Metalworks - July 7, 2009 02:53 AM (GMT)
user posted image

She's done.

I haven't decided what I'm going to do about the area over the opener brackets, but I have plenty of steel if I want to go that route. I'm probably going to install an outlet up there rather than continue using the greenfield. The new screw drive opener has a cord on it with a plug and the knock out comes out the side of the dang thing.

Once I paint the ladder white, it should look pretty slick. It's wonderfully illuminated. :)

Franzę - July 7, 2009 03:41 AM (GMT)
Before you paint the access ladder glue some styrofoam to it. Those things are terrible heat barriers.

I sure hope nobody's paying you by the hour on that job as much as yer milkin it. Of course Jack would probably consider you a speedfreak.

Now if you had real class you'd put the old door opener for lazy people on the sliding door and make it an attraction instead of another dangling dead weight. You could then be the guy from StarGarage Enterprize.

JT Metalworks - July 7, 2009 03:55 AM (GMT)
I'm being paid by having a nice place to work on cars in the summer and winter regardless of outside weather conditions.

I've also had to maneuver around all the crap that's still occupying said garage in the process of installing this stuff - so it's a lot of leg work before you can properly position the ladder.

Thanks for trying to take credit for my idea for use of the old opener. Do you want to post your design for the mechanism now so when I build it differently, you can say "that's not how I would've done it." Or you could even inspire me to perhaps go in your direction of thought (although I doubt it).

As for insulating the door - that's hardly necessary. The whole ceiling is only insulated to R21. The design intent is to isolate the radiant heat from the roof from the interior in the summer and to slow the loss in the winter when heat is actually provided. The garage will not be heated outside of whatever heat is brought in from the van (when it returns warm), or any incidental losses from the shop from coming and going from there. For my intended purposes, a sheet of plastic probably would've sufficed in the winter.

There's no insulation above my whole house fan out in the shop, and that thing certainly hasn't cost me much efficiency.

Franzę - July 7, 2009 04:13 AM (GMT)
Now that you went and sealed that garage attic up all nice and tight you might want to consider powerventing it so you don't cook the damn shingles off the roof.

While yer pondering that stuff the kid inthe car and take him someplace classy so he can see a professional doorman. Then talk him into thinkin it's a cool job, and use him to open & close the door. Hell have Mommie sew him up a little uniform for the job. Just don't let him learn yer supposed to tip him when he opens the door for you.

JT Metalworks - July 7, 2009 04:18 AM (GMT)
The attic vents went in as soon as I had enough of the storage platform in place to sit on to mark the centers... That was a couple weeks ago.

I do need to poke some holes and install eaves vents to allow for the air to flow better.

tackit - July 7, 2009 05:25 AM (GMT)
very nice job JT, painting the ladder white would be fine.. putting metal over it wouldn't gain a thing.

Franzę - July 7, 2009 05:52 AM (GMT)
Tack you know dang well if JT put metal over the ladder hatch he'd forget where the hatch was.


JT Metalworks - July 7, 2009 06:02 AM (GMT)
The two 2x4's that the angle hangers for the garage door opener hangs from is what I might box in with the steel. There's another 2x up in there that goes above the plane of the ceiling, so it's not continuous steel all the way across in the center section.

I've got a couple drops from the end pieces that are wide enough to cover the 2x's, but I don't know how well the edges will work if I do that. I also have some spare plywood I can box that section in with as well. Just to tidy it up.

tackit - July 9, 2009 09:35 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Franzę @ Jul 7 2009, 12:52 AM)
Tack you know dang well if JT put metal over the ladder hatch he'd forget where the hatch was.

Franz JT could put a picture of a smiling Obama on the door looking down at him... who could miss that...lol:

JT no one checks the ceiling, just paint it white.

storts1 - July 11, 2009 03:04 PM (GMT)
Jim,Our cieling for the shop is Identical for your garage! will look real sharp,and clean,,,

Now lets see a pic of Franz's cieling!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Should look like this!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lights are all ordered,!!!!!! :D :D :D 105.00 each!!!!!!! But it will look like day light in there!!!!!!!!!! :D :D And a ft or so of stufffin for the roof insulation!!!!!!!! Maybe 2 ft!!!!!!! Nice the co thru in all j channel,so the pcs fit nice ,so none of the stuffin can fall out of the big turkey!!!!!!! :D :D

JT Metalworks - July 11, 2009 03:17 PM (GMT)
All my insulation on the first course is fiberglass. I could blow in on top of it and not have any "snow." We'll see how she does this winter and go from there. I'm probably putting trim up to cover the edges. Looks like it's half way done right now, and I don't like that.

Life would've been so much easier had the frame members been square. Even remotely close to square would've been better than what I got. :(

Oh well... once the edges are concealed it'll look real sharp. :)

storts1 - July 11, 2009 03:34 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (JT Metalworks @ Jul 11 2009, 10:17 AM)
All my insulation on the first course is fiberglass. I could blow in on top of it and not have any "snow." We'll see how she does this winter and go from there. I'm probably putting trim up to cover the edges. Looks like it's half way done right now, and I don't like that.

Life would've been so much easier had the frame members been square. Even remotely close to square would've been better than what I got. :(

Oh well... once the edges are concealed it'll look real sharp. :)

Looks prety sharp now,and the only ones that will know are You,,if some one was to come to my house,and start picking apart the work,Id show them where the door is!!!!!!!

JT Metalworks - July 11, 2009 04:15 PM (GMT)
So you're saying there's stuff that's done chitty in your house? ;)

I made the executive decision to not hand cut every panel to fit the skewed joists. Now that I'm done installing the panels, I'm going to complete my original plan and cover the edges.

There's over three inches of difference in the width between the outside and inside in that front most course of paneling. That one is the worst, and so I did cut 5 of the 7 panels to fit (ordered them long), but it still needs edge moulding to be complete.

There's nothing like that in the shop. All my walls are square and plumb. I hand picked every board in that building, and nailed every one of them together. The trusses are the only exception, and that was due to code requiring a stamp on them.

Maybe if you actually built your house (rather than calling favors) you wouldn't have other people's f-ups in it. :P

storts1 - July 12, 2009 11:11 PM (GMT)
Jim,You missed the point,I did not Build the timber frame,,By budy did,,and if the timber came in 1/32 out of sq,,he went ballistic,, and the rest was done as close as you could get it!!!!!,,,
My Point was if I had friends over,and some one said that looks like syht,,id tell them where the door is,,thats all,i wish that everyone worked like Bob,The timber framer,,the mill knew when he called in a order,it better be of cold rolled speck!!!!


I did build my house with alot of favors,,But I was the lay out man, Just like steel,But wood!!!!!

I was making a point,caise any one that knows ya, knows you work,and you would of nebver let it go like that!!!!!! Thats alll.

tackit - July 18, 2009 03:32 AM (GMT)
I have found that trying to make everything perfect is a stupid waste of time, no-one gives a fxxk if it's perfect but you.

I love my fXXk ups and will gladly point them out to anyone who wishes to examine them. damn if people don't work to make life harder than it is, this shyt ain't like going to the moon folks...

But But But I'm Mr. perfect, who gives a fXXk .

storts1 - July 18, 2009 02:13 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Franzę @ Jul 7 2009, 12:52 AM)
Tack you know dang well if JT put metal over the ladder hatch he'd forget where the hatch was.

I see a string,,Just paint that red!! :D :D :D :D :D Pc of cake!!!!!!!!!

storts1 - July 18, 2009 02:18 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Franzę @ Jul 6 2009, 10:41 PM)
Before you paint the access ladder glue some styrofoam to it. Those things are terrible heat barriers.

I sure hope nobody's paying you by the hour on that job as much as yer milkin it. Of course Jack would probably consider you a speedfreak.

Now if you had real class you'd put the old door opener for lazy people on the sliding door and make it an attraction instead of another dangling dead weight. You could then be the guy from StarGarage Enterprize.

Mines a quote Job,,The inspector was here this am,and gave it a A+,,With all the additional things Charlie put in!!!!!,,Hes also a sheetrocker,and taper by trade,,So theres my taping done for the Loft Office!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D




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