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Title: Woodsplitter
Description: weld crack


egon - June 25, 2008 11:02 AM (GMT)

This comes from another site. I though Franz might have an answere. Even if its not kind! :D

QUOTE
OK, I finish stick welding a Northern splitter blade to the base plate and a backing plate with 7018 rods.Preped it well, even chamfered the edges, then I noticed one entire weld bead split right down its whole 6 inches. I did tack everything before welding a whole seam. Did it split because I should have done much heavier tacking? I went over it and put down a couple of slow, heavy beads. Seems to have taken care of the problem.

Main - June 25, 2008 12:30 PM (GMT)
I willing to bet that the weld that cracked was the first weld that was put down.

JT Metalworks - June 25, 2008 04:54 PM (GMT)
Maybe it cracked because 7018 is a low penetration rod and not appropriate for the joint. :rolleyes:

Franzę - June 25, 2008 05:04 PM (GMT)
How's the saying go, all questions contain their own answer.

"" went over it and put down a couple of slow, heavy beads. Seems to have taken care of the problem. ""

7018 is the perfect rod cause all the azzwipes on all the weldunce boards say so.

I got a dollar that says dumbolena "welded" it with a single pass and waved the rod back & forth a mile.

storts1 - June 25, 2008 06:42 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Franzę @ Jun 25 2008, 12:04 PM)
How's the saying go, all questions contain their own answer.

"" went over it and put down a couple of slow, heavy beads. Seems to have taken care of the problem. ""

7018 is the perfect rod cause all the azzwipes on all the weldunce boards say so.

I got a dollar that says dumbolena "welded" it with a single pass and waved the rod back & forth a mile.

And pre heated it with a bic lighter!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

storts1 - June 25, 2008 06:44 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (egon @ Jun 25 2008, 06:02 AM)
This comes from another site. I though Franz might have an answere. Even if its not kind! :D

QUOTE
OK, I finish stick welding a Northern splitter blade to the base plate and a backing plate with 7018 rods.Preped it well, even chamfered the edges, then I noticed one entire weld bead split right down its whole 6 inches. I did tack everything before welding a whole seam. Did it split because I should have done much heavier tacking? I went over it and put down a couple of slow, heavy beads. Seems to have taken care of the problem.

FRANZ?????????????????? :o :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :unsure: :blink: :) :P :huh:

JT Metalworks - June 25, 2008 07:30 PM (GMT)
Maybe he used a riland buzz box...

I did notice the arc quality on stick with the tigmate was crappy. I haven't used the sync with my stinger yet, but I did get a new lead and holder for it and sent the burnt up nasty one down the road with the hofart.

egon - June 25, 2008 08:10 PM (GMT)

Dam it Franz, I know he be using the wrong rod but yous was supposed to tell us the right one so I'se could go be a Guru on the other site!!! ;) ;) ;)

egon - June 25, 2008 08:15 PM (GMT)

There now, I have gone and done it. Corrected the rod bit. :D :D :D

JT Metalworks - June 25, 2008 08:43 PM (GMT)
6011 or 13 depending how much oil and crap is on the blade stock and the splitter frame. The 11 will bite better and not care what's on the base metal (since it's a retrofit - god only knows how much pitch is coating it or oil from the ram for that matter).

7018 is used on pipe caps because it won't burn through the root. What that means in this application is that it sits on top of the joint and doesn't really get into the base metal. How he managed to crack the weld down the middle is likely due to pulling it apart on the other side from not having any relief at the base of a T joint and the contraction after the part cooled.

I'm also with Franz that he probably put a stringer down and called it a day when he needed more than one pass regardless of the rod he was using. Without pics, we're left to blind speculation (so post em up E!). It's not my fault that doc you want a look at ain't around anymore. The last one was a heifer and I didn't even wanna look at her while I was there. :P

egon - June 25, 2008 10:47 PM (GMT)

Darned fellows. I've noted that the wiser folk on the site say 7018 is the right rod! Another pretend welder. :D

But thanks any way for your comments. :D :D :D

Bye the byes I know it's not the right rod and the fellow pretend welding is just pretending to gob some stuff on. How else could it crack?

I really got a chew out some weeks back by a fellow when I mentioned Play Farmin. Seems like 15 acres or so makes a real farm! :o :o

Ah, maybe I'll go back. :D

Main - June 25, 2008 11:27 PM (GMT)
E, I think I know the reason why they be using 7018. Even in the hands of the most inexperienced weldor it can be made to look darn right pretty as opposed to 6011, 6013. Maybe these fellows just weld for looks.

egon - June 26, 2008 01:19 AM (GMT)

Boys, I'se been corrected again on rod required again. Even told to go consult some Lincoln etc sites and some welding boards. :( :(

You folks really weld or yous just giving me some bad advice or??? :D :D

egon - June 26, 2008 01:27 AM (GMT)

Now I have gone and done it again. I suggested 6013! :D :D

We will keep you posted. :D :D :D

JT Metalworks - June 26, 2008 01:48 AM (GMT)
You don't read so well do ya E?

6011 would be a far better choice. Much harder to make look decent, but it's a very aggressive rod that couldn't care less how much crud was on the material as long as you can actually strike an arc to light it off.

6013 is like general purpose for clean stuff. Too much paint or gunk and it's not happy.

Franzę - June 26, 2008 03:39 AM (GMT)
6011 my buttcrack. I've welded a few of them splitter wedges up with 6013 and never had a problem. I got a good hunch I know what Board E is speakin of, and them dumb sumbeaches could screw up JB Weld with Paul Harvey holdin the trowell. Them boys just ain't right.

JT capping passes on pipeline all over Europe are run with 6013. 7018 is the preferred rod here because that's what the ashole engineers spec. Damn engineers are all too damn scared to read a spec sheet and too stupid to know what the sheet says, so they do it the same way the other goof does. 6013 and 7018 spec out damn close in strength as welded and 6013 is a hell of a lot easier to use.


JT Metalworks - June 26, 2008 03:42 AM (GMT)
Ok, so I just like how prep is unneeded with the 11...

After all, these guys can't fuse metal, so who's to say they own a grinder. ;)

Franzę - June 26, 2008 03:50 AM (GMT)
who in hell needs a grinder for a splitter wedge. If you don't have balls enough to run the root hot enough to undercut, shave the damn wedge with a torch and weld it up. Way too much time wasted grinding shyt that can be shaved with a torch.

JT Metalworks - June 26, 2008 04:25 AM (GMT)
I wasn't talking about joint prep like that - I was talking about cleaning the crap off the machine prior to welding the replacement on.

I bet most of those guys wouldn't be able to make a neutral flame without assistance.

Franzę - June 26, 2008 05:39 AM (GMT)
Them there neutral flames can be chalenging JT. It's much easier to shoot flames out the exhaust under load than it is in neutral.

egon - June 26, 2008 10:11 AM (GMT)
Jt, I didn't post all of the original post. He's ground back the wedge. Sorry. :D

Too bad I'm not brave enough to post replies from this thread. :( And Franz has the right source. I spend lots of time their cause I just naturally fit into the knowledge pool! :D :D

Now the saga continues. The latest quote from the site.

QUOTE
The Northern site has two listings for splitter wedges. One still lists it as being A36 steel and recommends using 7018. The other simply states that it is "1045 hardness


Now where do I stand other than on my own two feet??

egon - June 26, 2008 10:35 AM (GMT)

Okay, here is the original! :D

[QUOTE]OK, I finish stick welding a Northern splitter blade to the base plate and a backing plate with 7018 rods.Preped it well, even chamfered the edges, then I noticed one entire weld bead split right down its whole 6 inches. I did tack everything before welding a whole seam. Did it split because I should have done much heavier tacking? I went over it and put down a couple of slow, heavy beads. Seems to have taken care of the problem. [/QUOTE]

Main - June 26, 2008 11:05 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (egon @ Jun 25 2008, 08:19 PM)
Boys, I'se been corrected again on rod required again. Even told to go consult some Lincoln etc sites and some welding boards. :( :(

You folks really weld or yous just giving me some bad advice or??? :D :D

E, if that wood splitting wedge came in to the shop I would of welded it with 6011 5/32 DCEP and cranked the heat up for maximum penetration. 7018 will stick the wedge to the beam but it wouldn't be my first choice or even a consideration. Now if I wanted to get a little exotic I would probably use Cronaweld 375 5/32 at about 170 amps DCEP. But I save that stuff for cracked excavator buckets and dozer blades.
Sometimes what the specs in the book say is contrary to what the real world demands.

egon - June 26, 2008 11:33 AM (GMT)

Ahh, a source to quote. I am quite sure there was no original penetration!. The fellows are now talking about preheat???

I would love to transfer Franz's replies but!! :D :D

storts1 - June 26, 2008 01:02 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (JT Metalworks @ Jun 25 2008, 02:30 PM)
Maybe he used a riland buzz box...

I did notice the arc quality on stick with the tigmate was crappy. I haven't used the sync with my stinger yet, but I did get a new lead and holder for it and sent the burnt up nasty one down the road with the hofart.

Maybe he used a riland buzz box...

Then at least it would of held!!!!!!!!!!! :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :D :D :D :D :D :P

JT Metalworks - June 26, 2008 04:55 PM (GMT)
Jack, if you're not smart enough to buy a decent machine, who's to say you're smart enough to use a chitty one effectively? :rolleyes:

egon - June 27, 2008 12:27 AM (GMT)

Main, after using your reply no one has mentioned anything. I just added something about a picture and then threatened them with Thingy!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

storts1 - June 27, 2008 12:39 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (JT Metalworks @ Jun 26 2008, 11:55 AM)
Jack, if you're not smart enough to buy a decent machine, who's to say you're smart enough to use a chitty one effectively? :rolleyes:

Which is it!????????????????there lighting Rod toes :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

storts1 - June 27, 2008 12:43 AM (GMT)
Ok there sparkie :D :D :D :D :D :D Its all 1/2 plate,,is it the lincoln Ideal arc the ranger 9 or the Riland??????????????????






Franz,,I FINNALLY found the sevin tonight!!!!!!!!! Has the world gone green?????????????? :unsure: :unsure: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol: :D :D ,Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!

storts1 - June 27, 2008 12:45 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (JT Metalworks @ Jun 26 2008, 11:55 AM)
Jack, if you're not smart enough to buy a decent machine, who's to say you're smart enough to use a chitty one effectively? :rolleyes:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 34 years!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :D :D :D :D

storts1 - June 27, 2008 12:47 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (egon @ Jun 26 2008, 06:33 AM)
Ahh, a source to quote. I am quite sure there was no original penetration!. The fellows are now talking about preheat???

I would love to transfer Franz's replies but!! :D :D

Egon,so would we all!!!!!Maybe hes dressing thePup,for the next expedition! :lol: :D :o :D :unsure: :unsure:

Franzę - June 27, 2008 02:25 AM (GMT)
Jack why do you post pics of welds I made with the SA250?

Franzę - June 27, 2008 02:35 AM (GMT)
I've read the crapola spec and I can see why Northern is coverin their azz recommending 7018 if in fact the wedge is A36. Of course 99.9% of those damn wedges will not be welded within procedure for 7018, so it's just more crap. The likelyhood of hydrogen embrittlement being induced into the ?A36? as it's "welded" to a hunk of beam is pretty damn minimal anyhow. The deposit is going to be some wierdazz conglomeration of A36, godknowswhat and the rod.

I'd also be willing to bet as much as a buck that half of the wedges Northern sells are never welded to the beam. Some might be stuck in place by a deposit of something that looks like a weld, but they ain't welded in place cause the panseys doin the "welding" are afraid to turn the damn heat up.

As far as preheating a damn woodsplitter wedge to weld it to a beam, give me a friggin break. It's above 70░ out there, most of the jerkoffs haven't got a clue about in spec use of 7018, and preheat ain't going to accomplish shyt.

How the hell many ways can I say it, the weld ain't in the machine or the rod or wire, it's in the man behind the mask. You get enough experience you don't even think about weave, or anything else, it's just sort of automatic. When you need to explain it the old farts have to go make the weld and remember what the hell they did to explain it.

JT Metalworks - June 27, 2008 02:46 AM (GMT)
Jack, you need to learn English better. Just because someone poses a question towards you for a response doesn't mean the question is directed at you... (now here's a direct question) You been hanging around the pit too much again? It's showing! :P

I'd say that's a riland weld. There's absolutely no HAZ and you had to peen the chit out of it to get the slag off. :rolleyes: Now lets see the bend test on that one. Fold it over mr cocky.

egon - June 27, 2008 10:45 AM (GMT)
Still no response on the weld and rod. He He! :D :D

No doubt Franz just got curious enough to go over and have a look see! :D :D

Thanks fellows! :D

The original poster claimed he fixed the split by making several passes over it???
Yep! we all will believe? :D :D

storts1 - June 27, 2008 03:10 PM (GMT)
Jim,Havent been to the pit ,not even to pop my head in in well over 2 weeks,could be longer! I happen to use this for the slag!Lot quicker,,wheres the mr cocky come from?thats a 1/2 x 7 plate welded with 7024 with the riland! :D

Franzę - June 27, 2008 05:07 PM (GMT)
No Egon, I didn't waste my time, I have 157 pages of text to wade thru to see what the 9 robed wizards actually did in the Heller case yesterday because I no longer trust other people's interpitations.

Aw Jezuz, I can feel it comin. Captain Jack at the keyboard of the mighty ChinkOmatic teaches welding on the internet.

Jack you cheap bustard put a damn replacement needle kit in that friggin scaler. Don't even try bullshyttin me that's a corner set.


JT Metalworks - June 27, 2008 06:34 PM (GMT)
The mr cocky is because it was obvious when you posted it that you'd be using the riland and trying to say it's equal to the lincoln... Tombstones have been running stick for a very long time and there's nothing magical about them. My tigmate ran stick - not very well, but it did it. It would've been preferable for me to use a torch if those were my two options.

You can weld with fire in a hole (marko does it all the time), that's not the issue here. It's how pleasurable (or easy) it is to the user and how long the thing will last (good investment vs disposable junk).

storts1 - June 27, 2008 06:38 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Franzę @ Jun 27 2008, 12:07 PM)
No Egon, I didn't waste my time, I have 157 pages of text to wade thru to see what the 9 robed wizards actually did in the Heller case yesterday because I no longer trust other people's interpitations.

Aw Jezuz, I can feel it comin. Captain Jack at the keyboard of the mighty ChinkOmatic teaches welding on the internet.

Jack you cheap bustard put a damn replacement needle kit in that friggin scaler. Don't even try bullshyttin me that's a corner set.

Nope,Got 2 new sets fom McMaster sitting right in the top drawer of the tool box! Hell,there only half way down,want to see the others? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :D :D :D ,,There many more chips left out of that one!!!!!

Now if i heated the 7024,and got the river out,,it woiuld peel,,but there double welded,and covered with Lead! Havent lost on in all of my time! Got to go pick up exrays! and some other thins at Home desperato! :lol: :lol: :D

storts1 - June 27, 2008 06:53 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (JT Metalworks @ Jun 27 2008, 01:34 PM)
The mr cocky is because it was obvious when you posted it that you'd be using the riland and trying to say it's equal to the lincoln... Tombstones have been running stick for a very long time and there's nothing magical about them. My tigmate ran stick - not very well, but it did it. It would've been preferable for me to use a torch if those were my two options.

You can weld with fire in a hole (marko does it all the time), that's not the issue here. It's how pleasurable (or easy) it is to the user and how long the thing will last (good investment vs disposable junk).

Got to see,im on 4 years of pushing the hell out of it,Never even had the duty cycle light go on!,will see how long it lasts,the guys prefere it over the lincoln Ideal arc,,Just now they fell in love with the flux core.1/16 and the lnvertec 350!! Can burn a hole thru 3/4 plate with that sucker,,but as soon as all the free flux core goes,its back to gas and innershield or .045!

The Inverters deffinally run alot smoother!!! :D :D :D




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