Healthcare

I dont know how closely you guys have been following this, but its a huge issue now and its pretty obvious to me. I think we need a single payer universal system like all the other industrialized nations in the world ranked above us in healthcare. Senator/candidate Obama shared this view and was elected with that plank in his platform, but president Obama has not even tried for it. The bills in congress now are definitely weak compromises, a far cry from what I would like, but they are waay better than the current system.
The opposition just seems ridiculous to me... Most people have a hunch that money makes the world go around, and it couldn't be more true. The health insurance companies make a killing off our current system, which is basically grant them monopoly status and let them do whatever they want, and they have done everything they can to stop reform. its simply another example of the obscenely rich doing whatever they can to stay that way. The rest of us be damned.
I was about to go on about the conservative movement and their arguments, but I dont want to type it now. Fox News types are at the forefront of it, so you can probably figure out the most of it.

THOUGHTS?

if you are thinking along the same lines as me, here is a petition put out by FAIR for single payer: http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/592/t...tition_KEY=1993

there are others put out by good members of congress for strong public option support too, but strangely the two i went to are down. could be some mundane problem, could be an attack, who knows.

Before anyone gets apathetic, that is exactly the attitude that keeps everything you dont like in place. The powers that be stay powerful because they keep people too ignorant and demoralized to do anything about it.

I'm definitely ignorant, here. I've heard that Bam's policy will issue a fine to anyone who doesn't have health insurance, though. Not sure how to react to that...

Where'd you hear that? There's always some negative aspect that comes up, but I can never gather what's true or not. Too much information man. The mass media needs to be seriously restructured, as I don't think that humans can handle the amount of info that they are exposed to.
I think that's one of the biggest tools used to demoralize the people. Fucking over exposure and confusion. I mean there are others too. Like the educational system that leads to widespread mental disability. I think we need to investigate the means that the rich are using to do this to people. Deep high publicity investigations. And some constitutional amendments to prevent it again. Should be considered a crime against humanity.
Anyway, I am also ignorant as to health care. I know what we should have and such, but the whole damn thing is so muddled that I don't know who to trust.

I agree with you bro, everyone should be entitled to free or lower cost health care. I would like to know if I got into an accident I would be cover, not turned away from the door because I don't have insurance. Not everyone can afford a system that demands so much money. -Rick

COOL AGREEING WITH YOURSELF, BRO

That was me bra

you could react by thinking about how likely that is to be true. The bill exists to make healthcare more affordable and available to those who dont have it. The public option is only available to people who dont have insurance, and the cost of that is then subsidized so people without insurance can afford it. So, ask yourself how fining the poor uninsured fits into that picture. Nobody has said that is going to happen, and imagine what a shitstorm that would turn into --it would be political suicide. a week after it goes into effect, people who got fucked by the long dick of the law would have sob stories on the news and 2010 would be a purge of democrats.
The closest thing that is true is that BUSINESSES who dont provide their employees with healthcare will be fined. That money will then be used to subsidize those without insurance.

SUM FACTZ: http://www.alternet.org/politics/143747/wh...u_think/?page=1

you could react by thinking about how likely that is to be true. The bill exists to make healthcare more affordable and available to those who dont have it. The public option is only available to people who dont have insurance, and the cost of that is then subsidized so people without insurance can afford it. So, ask yourself how fining the poor uninsured fits into that picture. Nobody has said that is going to happen, and imagine what a shitstorm that would turn into --it would be political suicide. a week after it goes into effect, people who got fucked by the long dick of the law would have sob stories on the news and 2010 would be a purge of democrats.
The closest thing that is true is that BUSINESSES who dont provide their employees with healthcare will be fined. That money will then be used to subsidize those without insurance.

From what I understand, if someone can afford the newly affordable healthcare program, but chooses not to, gets injured, and gets treatment, the patient is fined for not having healthcare.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message829968/pg1

Or just google it.

Oh, I thought you meant it would just fine people without giving them chance to buy insurance. In this case its a good idea because just like (as that article says) auto insurance it prevents the ugly situation of something happening and someone not having insurance. Its not uncommon for a car accident to cost $100k, so why would you not have health insurance? The idea is to leave nobody uninsured and this is an easy way to encourage people to sign up. Insurance premiums get cheaper as the number of subscribers goes up, and those fines raise money that would also pay for people's insurance.

MAKES SURE EVERYBODY COVERED FOR AS CHEAP AS POSSIBLE

I can't figure out why people talk about keeping healthcare a "free market" without bothering to notice that the current system contains none of the positive features of a free market.

Such as? I'm not trying to be condescending, I just don't know squat about this topic

Individuals are the only ones capable of actually calculating precisely what their needs are-- because all people lack perfect knowledge, there is no possible way an oligarchic elite can possibly figure out precisely who needs what at what time. The free market, on the other hand, is capable of efficiently allocating resources to where they need to be while at the same time creating a stopper against actions that stretch to the point of unsustainable circumstances.

http://libertariannation.org/a/f12l3.html

We could start with the fact that The health insurance industry is granted a legal monopoly by the government. Thats some free market, ya know, the one where they are legally protected from competition. The bill puts an end to that.

All the free market rhetoric is nonsense. Our economy is hardly a free market. Huge corporations control America; they operate on a scale so large that they can run small businesses out of town. When industries are run by a few huge players, the "laws" of economics no longer apply. ex, econ says that the market regulates wages by themselves, but when a few companies control the entire industry around the country and pay shit, the workers have nowhere else to go, and thus cant just go somewhere that pays better.

In a world without high speed transportation, the internet, and huge corporations, like the one Adam smith knew, the free market would work alot better.

Capitalism is when small businesses and labor balance out due to unlimited competition, free choice of the consumer and alot of other fantasies that simply do not exist anymore(if they ever did).
Capitalism does not exist when corporations have enough influence in Washington to pass anything they want. The free market does not set up a fair wage when corporations can outsource to third world countries. Capitalism does not exist when a handful of corporations own all of the mainstream media, filtering everything you see on tv and read in newspapers

What does exist is corporatism, where a tiny number of incredibly rich people control society till the point where the public is to busy working for them, watching their media, and buying their crap to know whats going on.

For the record I'm not supporting the idea of a "free market" sorting out healthcare problems. I'm commenting on the absurdity of that belief.