Hey everyone! We haven't had a good Wookbox debate in a while, so I'm here to bring up an interesting topic, for both atheists and Christians alike. As an atheist, I am curious to hear a Christian's response to this. No flaming please, I'd just like to hear some thoughts! :)

Way back when, as we learn about from our school's history textbooks, online references, and stuff, we know that there used to be huge civilizations, thousands of years ago, that believed in a whole series of gods. Aztecs believed in their gods so strongly, they were prone to giving human sacrifices. Now do any of us today still believe in Aztec gods? Of course not.

The last standing ancient wonder of the world is the chain of pyramids in Giza, Egypt. Today, we know that these pyramids were actually big tombs for pharoahs and kings--ancient Egyptians believed in their gods so fervently that they made serious preparations for the dead to the next life--mummification, putting their organs in different jars, putting in animals and treasured possessions into the tomb so as the person could "take it with them" to the next life, ect. Hell, these guys believed in their gods so strongly, they spend possibly thousands of years constructing these ridiculously large pyramids to honour their gods and the next life. Do any of us today still believe in Egyptian gods? Of course not.

The ancient Greeks and Romans, with stories told through us through such literature works as The Odyssey and The Iliad, shows that people back then (I point out in "The Odyssey," when Odysseus and Telemachus are inspired by Athena) had extremely close relationships with their gods. It's the same way some people today claim to be "inspired" by God, Allah, Jesus, ect. Do any of us believe in Greek and/or Roman gods today? No.


And here we are, almost in the year 2008. Many of us are worshiping this God, this Christian God, believing in the legacy of his son Jesus. My point is, if the fervently believed in Gods of yesterday are now forgotten...whats the difference with today's God? Will today's God be forgotten tomorrow, and a new era of "gods" start?

Because of this, I have this theory that human psychology deals with a natural need to be controlled in life, some sort of epic fear of having control over one's life. We are forced to create these images, these "gods," that are now watching over us. This is, again, seen in Homer's Odyssey, when Odysseus needs to get home, and he's so lonely all the time, and Athena helps him home. Do any of us still pray to Athena? Doubtful. But we do pray to God...to ask him to get us through the tough times. Are we so scared that we must rely on a higher power to get us through the tough times? That, even if we are alone, we have someone to guide us? I think that's what humans want...it would show consistency with what's been occurring in theistic belief for thousands of years.


Thoughts?

I was just reading a book which was in my library (shockingly) about the resemblance between Jesus and the new testament and ancient gods. Apparently, there is significant reason to believe that the NT was a "allegory" of old pagan religions, everything from the virgin birth to crucifiction to wisemen to his name itself, "So(u)n of God," an obvious reference to the sun god.

It's interesting, but it doesn't all add up- for example, the ancient greek words for sun and son are not spot on as they are in english, so a substantial wreck in the theory is drawn there.

In the last chapter of "The God Delusion," the book that turned me full fledged atheist, Professor Dawkins attributes the need for a god to an evolutionary need to follow authority (actually, this theme is recounted throughout, but it connects with a theme I will soon mention which appeared in the last chapter). By following authority, we are following rules by which other people have followed- this is important, because they LIVED. Since they lived, they procreated, and the meme(think the social equivalent of a gene, a social replicator as a gene is a physical replicator) was passed down.

I could go on, but I have to go. I'll see where this thread goes :)

An elaboration:

The theory is that religion is an evolutionary by product, and this is explained by example using a moth. A moth is attracted to light, because a moon's light guides it at night. Unfortunately, a month is also attracted to the light emitted from candles or bug zappers, and the moth will often maim or kill itself passing through the flame. There was no way the "gene to fly towards the light" could have foreseen this, and reproductively speaking, it is a "rare" occurrence. The gene which tells them to fly by the light of the moon aids their survival greatly, though it also unfortunately makes the moths fly into hazardous areas.

Religiously, the need to follow authority is genetically and memetically backed because of its survival. Genes/memes that survive get passed down, that is how they function. The need to follow an omnipresent authority is one which can be examined in children (imaginary friends) and it is speculated that imaginary friends have much to do with the origin of most, if not all religions.

lime you put a smile on my face, having studied philosophy of religion at college i have become more and more astounded as to why people believe in this so called ''GOD'' when there is no proof whatsoever !
This drew me to the conclusion that people do need something to have faith and believe in because, everyone is different regardless of religion its a scientific fact, no 2 people are the same ; therefor people who may be emotionally ''weaker'' or have lower self esteem or for any other reason need a ''GOD'' to believe in so that they can remind themselves that something that is theoretically not there is guiding them and protecting them. HOWEVER! what does frustrate me is that when bad things happen to people, such as disease / death / accidents of any description occur they say that God has chosen this path for us ! and it just begs me to say ''If your so called God was protecting you, then why did this and this happen'' etc etc Obviously, if your raised in a relgious environment then its difficult to know any different because you have grown up in this lifestyle that has a faith towards an entity or ''god''

I dunno... its very confusing when you see all the sides to the theories about the existance of God and how there is very little proof or even decent support to show that God is infact even in existence there isn't even proof that there is a greater force or anything at all. So i dunno i just say each to their own and let them be because i know you cant force people to believe what you believe i just have my own opinion...

I just found this video from the Westboro Baptist Church, and everyone needs to watch this. It shows the corruption caused by fundamentalist Christianity, it's long, but pull through to the end- There's a young, young, young baby girl singing the words--- it's very disturbing.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/06...e_the_world.php

Edit to zan's post

I hate when people do that. Most people say "God made you get over your disease, he was looking out for you!" He didn't. I don't say that out of resentment or anger or sorrow, but examination- What cured me was science, medicine specifically, not divine intervention. Most people are just ignorant towards the drugs I received that they assume GODDIDIT. They don't understand that my body could represent 1+Xis les than or equal to 3, and the drugs filled X in with the 2 to balance the equation out. By the time it takes to explain this, I've lost them or they change the subject or finish with the classic "I'll pray for you."

man created god by instinct, needing some comfort of some kind and not feel alone, men who did not feel this instinct are rightfully allowed to not believe in a god, but when it comes to the rest of the people who are you to come off trying to dissuade us in our beliefs? sure im not the most religious person but still i like to think that its not called "faith" unless you have some.

just my two cents, and yes, i am losing my mind... slowly.

Kai: That video made me laugh, a lot.

Absolutely not.
I would never dissuade someone from their beliefs, as I am a libertarian.
But that doesn't stop me from being analytical and discussing with both atheists and theists the evidence that suggests there is no god.

For me the problem begins when people try to impose something upon other people. Theists and atheists are both guilty of doing this I'm sure, and if people were just more tolerant.....well I guess the big word there is "if".

The effect is maximized if the imposer wears livia pants.

lmao so true.

I don't it's just to say that religions "die off". Many if not all religions are simply a new form evolved from another belief system, if it can really be called a new form. One powerful example of this is an ancient religion started by Nimrod and his wife at the very beginning of the Babylonian empire. Strangely enough the religion consisted of the belief that Nimrod's wife was Queen of Heaven and that she bore a son as a virgin and that her son after being killed rose from the dead as the son of God. What religion does that sound like to you? Sounds a whole lot like Catholicism. So the question is, has this ancient religion died off or simply changed.

What is particularly interesting is how closely it parallels Christianity. In the Bible we can see that Christians are often called the Bride of Christ however in Revelation we read of "Babylon the great whore". (Whore is like a fake wife if you will)

Anyway, I don't think we can say that religions die, but that they change. Sometimes however they simply go dormant; I read an article about a year or two ago about revived Zeus worship. Christianity practically died out during the Dark Ages but revived during the Reformation and wains again in our lifetimes.

And, why then, do those strong enough to exist without a god spontaneously say "please" when things look foul and "thank you" when things have turned for the better? Perhaps a moment of weakness could explain the please but not the thank you. I think every one believes in God but not everyone believes in God. ;)

To clarify: Satan believes in God. I believes in God.

I think the please and thank you thing are because of habit and picking things up off of others rather than a belief in God.