Problem: Some people will play your level set with some or all power-ups.

Solution for people that want to make a difficult level: Create a layout that can't easily be exploited.

You know certain 'hidden' and not-so-hidden weapons exist. If you don't want people using certain weapons on your henchmen, avoid giving Bryant a horizontal line of sight with your rock/barrel henchmen or allowing Bryant to get anywhere near them (always remember the poor henchman in PF when you design your level). I suppose it could be possible to create a half-height wall next to the henchman to protect his exposed belly but who knows. Create a layout similar to Witch's Woods 1's moving platforms if you want certain power-ups to have a high chance of failing. Think low ceilings (like in Catacombs or Tangled Roots) to prevent certain power-ups from being helpful. Some people will walk into your level set with fireballs and probably even fireballs+. Try to at least allow your guards to respawn from the sides of your level. But also try to make your level set difficult by using elements other than guards/mutants/critters...because you know these can easily be disposed of. Think of the PF with an unreachable henchman if you want to create a difficult level without resorting to adding guards/mutants/critters. Use the eye that is invulnerable to all power-ups (I'm hoping this will be possible).

Solution for people that want to reward people with some or all power-ups: Create a layout that makes use of the power-ups by either making some or all of them mandatory (for example, forcing Bryant to use an oiled rope or adding a BK-guard somewhere to prevent people without a specific power-up to pass) or making some or all of them optional (for example, an oiled rope which could provide a shortcut to players with a certain power-up or a BK-guard which is guarding a shortcut path.) Or design your level so that it's possible but extremely difficult to get through without any power-ups but made much easier with certain or all power-ups. Flaming eyes, floor spikes, guards, rock/barrel henchmen, things that drop onto Bryant...these are all things that can make a level difficult without certain power-ups.

edit: wow...I never realized there was a thread about this in the Level Set forum.

Problem: Some people will try to find shortcuts to your levels.

Solution for people that want to make a difficult level: Space everything out! When things are too close to each other, it's possible through experimentation to find out if Bryant can long-jump or low-jump to parts you don't expect him to long-jump or low-jump to. If you want to keep things fairly compact, build your level so that Bryant is forced to move up the level instead of down. This way, you'll avoid people finding low-jump shortcuts to your level. Make abundant use of rope knots/rocks. Place them sensibly but also in places where you couldn't imagine Bryant ever reaching.

Solution for people that want to allow people use these shortcuts: If you're building a level that can or will be played in reverse and you want to give shortcuts to players think about how you want to give the shortcut. Do you want to only offer it to people doing the level in reverse? If so, think of the Courtyard level's ropes.

As for the weapon problem, you can always make a two part level where you need a certain weapon to get it. Like in the North Tower and South Tower, where you are forced to not have a flail (making buckets significantly easier) because you need that other weapon to even get to South Tower.

Similarly, you could put buckets in places where they can't be displaced via rocks, thereby making a flail necessary and that other weapon worthless.

This needs to be moved to the Level Designer's Discussion section

Moved

a warning to level developers too here - it won't be possible to get power-ups (other than hand-held weapons) during custom levels. According to Zack currently, placing of the wizard (for example) won't work because he will teleport you back to the ante room, and on leaving the custom level, you lose everything you gained in it.

Also, Zack is apparently thinking about (though it may not make it for initial release) being able to allow you to limit what the player can take in by way of power-ups etc.


Another final warning (both to players and creators alike) you can't place a certain boss character in the levels. That means that the closest thing your custom level can have to a 'boss' is our friend fro mosquito marsh, or a henchmen, or an eye.

However, suitable combinations of above (btw I asked, and I don't think at the moment you can have more than one marsh monster per room) can work to make a difficult final fight.

Would it be possible for the defeat of an enemy to trigger an event (Like a door opening, or a wall exploding)?

I mean, similar to some of the secrets, like the secret where you shoot leaves. Or Vultures. Only assigned to a particular enemy, rather than ALL enemies.

Can't wait to see levels with 2 mosquito marsh tentacles, two medusa eyes, Conservatory poisons plants, and a boar running around...oh, and snakes falling from the sky. All in a single room!

Ugh. :)

edit: hmm, makes me wonder if it's possible to have a stream of outpouring snakes that Bryant has to jump through. I don't know how many snakes you can have on screen but I'm guessing if the snakes fall into a pit and disappear it would be possible to make a level with a wall of snakes. Impossible to shoot them all since they keep respawning every second, so you'd have to jump through them and take a health hit. :) I'm gonna have to try this when the editor is out.

Uh, as I just said, at the moment, I don't think you can; but maybe Zack will fix it.

Oh come on the marsh monsters are just annoying - why would you want one of those in your level?

Do you guys think that Big Birds are possible in non-scrolling levels?

I wouldn't see why not. I mean, there's at least one level where there's a big bird that plunges right for you if you take your sweet time killing a bunch of small birds. And that level doesn't scroll.

What I'm wondering is if you can get the banshee. And force people to play your level at night (or does the notion of night and day in custom levels disappear?

This topic still needs to be moved into the "Level Designer's Discussion" forum

Yeah, I am wondering about the day/night thing too. Because in the test level Zack gave us, there was no day/night in the background.

Moved yet again...

I'm betting that time still moves no matter what. Just like in the Swamp and Forrest, it's ALWAYS dark. There must be a layer that superimposes over the day/night layer that you can put a single (or in chopper levels, repeating) picture.

Thanks La Porta :)

I have some pretty sweet ideas for some levels, but I won't know if they are possible to do until we have the editor.

God I hope not. I hate that.

Well, on second thought, only being able to play at night isn't so bad. Midnight is bad.

From asking Zack recently, he said that we won't be able to have monsters that only appear at dat/night, but yes, time does still pass in custom-level-land. I'm not sure how hard-coded the banshee is and whether it can be used.

As was suggested the trick is to cover the sky backdrop with something else, and some `layers' can be a picture.

Gullwhacker and myself have been discussing evil custom level ideas a lot on IRC lately :)

Quick answers regarding some of these questions. You can do streams of pests like snakes and rats. Notice the rat drops in South Wall 2 over the water. You can bump this speed up to pump out critters like crazy. :-) The banshee, gargoyle, big bird, etc. can all be used on custom levels, scrolling or not. Day and night is always running, but the sunset in my test level is a static image. You _can_, however, create custom day and night sequences. I could have taken that sunset, alter it in photoshop to have 4 times of day (remove the actual sun of course), and use an alpha mask for the mountains and it would "just work" (as Z Morris is so fond of saying). The sun, moon, and stars would all show appropriately over the new skies and behind the mountains.

Awesome. This is better than I could have hoped for for sure. Thanks Zack, we just need the editor now. I'm sure you are working hard on it!

Excellent, my planned fountain of snakes can proceed as planned.

Even if they pour into lava.

*whistles, walks away nonchalantly*

Redundant much?


:P

"Always low prices always."

Yes, Redundant much.

Apologies. I was half-asleep at the time.

Not fixing it, thought. For consistency!

Good! Otherwise people won't know where my quote came from.

Where is Zack Morris these days?

I think it is very good that we can make scrolling levels. I think they're the best. I have sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooo
many ideas for levels, I can't wait until the editor comes out! :D :D :D

I wonder if there is a limit on size. You could make the level that never ends...

Zack B's answer to this question lies somewhere in the developer chat section. I believe it was something like this: the level editor will technically support a level 99x99 screens big, though, apparently, that will more than likely cause a memory crash. I think Zack also said the largest he ever tried was 10x10 screens.

10x10 screens is way bigger than any of the Prince of Persia levels ever were. I'm sure people will try to push the limit as far as possible, but even 15x15 or 20x20 would yield pretty epic results I should think.

I'll go for a 30x30 with a barrel henchman on top. That would be a nightmare.

45x45, labyrinth-style design with spiders everywhere. 10 rocks, no :Food:. :ColorDead:

15 X 1, with a Barrel Henchman, lots of rats, and many, many small platforms with more than half of them moving.

I think BK showdown is maybe 3 X 1 or 4 X 1. Pssh. We're gonna rock this to epic proportions!

Scrolling Level with many platforms with spikes and a Rock Henchman and Strom Clouds at the top! :)

Can we also use the Black Knight in Custom Levels?

PLEASE...... :)

Nope! Though it would be cool, ZB has said that the BK's programming is too complex to allow for custom level designs. Plus, Zsculpt wants to make sure there aren't too many spoilers and cheats given off in custom levels.

Besides, if it were possible, you know some n00b out there would create a crappy level full of BK's just for the heck of it. Bleh. :blink:

How did you guess my idea?!?!?! :blink: :blink: :blink:


:P

Let's do this properly, shall we?

I will not be doing this; I leave the idea to someone else.

Recreate, faithfully, the original Mario Brothers levels.

The /original/. Just replace old DK with a barrel henchman.

HAHAHAHA.

I'll do it. I'll at least do the first one, and the first level from Super Mario Bros.

Oh... dear....

How big are teh swamp and black forest, just for reference? 1x5? 1x6? Random guesses...