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Title: Bush's new plans for Iraq


Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 01:05 AM (GMT)
What do you think about Bush wanting to send more troops to Iraq and Democrats planning to vote against it in Congress Democrats plan to vote against Bush's new iraq plan

Patriot76 - January 11, 2007 09:27 PM (GMT)
Well, if you read farther down in the article, as the Commander and chief of the UNited States Armed Forces, President Bush has all the rights to do it. Congress votes would just be symbolic of their opinions with no real meaning.

As I have previously said, I am for the war in Iraq. Only the liberal media builds up how bad it is. I have seen several interviews with soldiers who are proud of what they are doing. They do not want to go back again or let their children have to. With more troops and less restrictions, the joint American Iraqi military will quell this meager rebellion of Muslim terrorists.

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 09:28 PM (GMT)
Agreed. We need to get that democratic government in Iraq situated. Pulling out will only make us have to return in the long run.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 10:37 PM (GMT)
heres an interesting speach made by political activist and former rage against the machine lead singer zack de la rocha


QUOTE
    Without just cause or reason, without legal or moral justification, and without a thread of proof that Iraq directly threatens the security of the United States, the Bush administration has headed to war. As I am writing this, bombs are raining upon the defenseless civilians of Baghdad in a continuation of a policy that has already claimed the lives of over 1 million innocent Iraqi people. People just like us who want democracy but find themselves cornered by a dictator on one side, naked U.S. aggression on another, and the oil beneath their country; for which it appears they are to be massacred.

    Lies, sanctions, and cruise missiles have never created a free and just society. Only everyday people can do that, which is why I'm joining the millions world wide who have stood up to oppose the Bush administration's attempt to expand the U.S. empire at the expense of human rights at home and abroad. In this spirit I'm releasing this song for anyone who is willing to listen. I hope it not only makes us think, but also inspires us to act and raise our voices.

zack de la rocha also created a song called the "March of Death" in opposition to the war in iraq

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 10:40 PM (GMT)
So are you saying, Isa, that the US has an "empire" and that we are not abiding by human rights and that we have "massacred" people?

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 10:44 PM (GMT)
I did not say that it was a speach by zack de la rocha
also we should have handled the problem with iraq a different way. innocent iraqi citizens have been killed by U.S. bombs and by U.S. soldiers

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 10:46 PM (GMT)
and i support what he said about "lies, sanctions, and cruise missles not creating a free and just society"

Vox_Populi - January 11, 2007 10:52 PM (GMT)
i couldn't disagree more, Bush sending in more troops now, instead of pulling out over the next six months, like the liberal want to do, will save the country from more problems down the road. If we were to pull out now, and not maintain peace in Iraq, the Shi'ite and Sunni hatred would esscalate leading to more innocent deaths, and to what i believe will eventually result in World War III.

The additional 21,500 troops will hopeful making securing peace in the PRIOR war torn country will lessen these hostilties and save the world a lot of strife.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 11:00 PM (GMT)
im not saying we should pull out now but i think we should have never gone there in the 1st place. i think we should be gradually reducing troops while letting Iraqis take control. We'll still be there in case of problems but the iraqis should be learning to deal with these problems themselves because one day when we leave Iraq the Iraqis are going to have to know how to deal with problems with insurgents on their own. we can't be there forever so they should slowly start to learn how to deal with their problems on their own now.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 11:01 PM (GMT)
and how would sunni and shi'ite hatred lead to WWIII when iraq doesn't pose a direct threat to the U.S.

Patriot76 - January 11, 2007 11:03 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Vox_Populi @ Jan 11 2007, 10:52 PM)
i couldn't disagree more, Bush sending in more troops now, instead of pulling out over the next six months, like the liberal want to do, will save the country from more problems down the road. If we were to pull out now, and not maintain peace in Iraq, the Shi'ite and Sunni hatred would esscalate leading to more innocent deaths, and to what i believe will eventually result in World War III.

The additional 21,500 troops will hopeful making securing peace in the PRIOR war torn country will lessen these hostilties and save the world a lot of strife.

I agree with you completely. And whoever gets their info from an anti-American band is worse off than I thought.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 11:05 PM (GMT)
im not the only one who feels like this 70% of americans oppose troop increase

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 11:06 PM (GMT)
Well gosh I hope all 70% didn't get their information from Rage Against the Machine. In that case, we're all evil imperialists.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 11:15 PM (GMT)
rage against the machine isn't anti-american they expose problems in our country like social injustice , speaks out against our foreign and domestic policies because they show the things that are wrong with them for example how arms industries influence the country into going into a war to get a military contract and rage criticizes actions of the U.S. government during war. we should be looking at the things rage and other political activists point out at try to correct them.

people should be able to speak out with out getting punished for it
rage have protested against the PMRC-parents music resource center by standing nude on stage with PMRC taped on their chests to protest censorship
they also held a large protest at the democratic national convention a few years back
even though their beliefs may be radical they have the right to express them like anyone else and shouldn't be punished for it. heres a speech by de la rocha about the convention protest
QUOTE
So who went out and joined us for the Democratic National Convention? I've never seen so many f*cking cops in my whole life. It's like everybody knows that everybody went out there, the only thing we were out there to do is express how much we hate both the Democrats and Republicans because they sold this f*cking country out. And by expressing our rights to resist, what do they do, they open fire on the crowd. I don't care what f*cking television station said the violence was caused by the people at the concert, those motherf*ckers unloaded on this crowd. And I think it's ridiculous considering, you know, none of us had rubber bullets, none of us had M16s, none of us had billy clubs, none of us had face shields. All we had was our fists, our voices, our microphones, our guitars, our drums, and anytime we get beaten in the streets for protesting, we take it to the court system, and the court system don't wanna hear it. Look what happened to Amadou Diallo in New York, they shot that brother 41 times and let all four officers go. It's time for a new type of action in this country.

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - January 11, 2007 11:16 PM (GMT)
I believe pulling out then trying to interfere once again would be near impossible costing the lives of countless NEEDED soldiers and National Guard troops. I think anyone who feels pulling out right now simply to save the soldiers who are there right now is either a liberal or someone poorly informed and thus conforming to society, regardless of our reasons for coming pulling out would be giving this country the biggest black eye in ages, not only that the number of troops dead, if we were to return, would be countlessly multiplied in a vain attempt to clean up this liberal mistake.

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 11:19 PM (GMT)
Isa: Anyone who listens to a rock band who stood nude to protest something to get their political information apparently has their priorities slightly skewed. Even Nemo, I'm sure, will profess to that.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 11:20 PM (GMT)
what about when rage and their crowd was shot with rubber bullelts for protesting and expressing their beliefs.

im not anti-american i think that activists like rage show the problems in this country and as the greatest country in the world we should be working to solve these problems rather than continute them

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 11:26 PM (GMT)
Why don't you post a source to that info so that we can hear WHY they got rubber bullets shot at them. I'm sure that they were doing something wrong.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 11:26 PM (GMT)
i don't get my political information from rage against the machine i just think they have pointed out some problems that we need to take actioin against. i have my own political beliefs and think that rage shows some pretty important issues.

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 11:37 PM (GMT)
Any problems that are pointed out by a rock band, I'm sure, cannot possibly be all THAT important. Politicians are on top of the important issues, as are the American people. If Rage Against the Machine is worried about if they can be naked on TV, then that's fine by me. But they're gonne get rubber bullets shot at them. We have laws for a reason.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 11:40 PM (GMT)
thats not the point the whole idea was the police didn't have the right to shoot at unarmed protesters. rage actually drew thousands of people to watch them while Bill Clinton was speaking. the crowd was very big and police said they were "concerned" by the protesters who were near the fence by the Staples Center where the convention was held so they used rubber bullets and pepper spray. police then gave protesters 15 to leave and some protesters refused to leave and continued their protest police rushed the crowd on horses and the protestors ran to the steets where they where pepper sprayed, stun grendade, hit with batons, and rubber bullets the protestors went downtown and refused to leave and were shot with the above mentioned things by police. these protesters ran into another group marching to support homeless rights and they ended up being shot to. many protestors and the press were injured and hundreds of lawsuits were filed with most of them ending in out of court settlements. when someone brought up their injury the LAPD said "Maybe you should have gotten out of the way like you were told."user posted image homeless rights activists shot in chest with rubber bullets by the police

Patriot76 - January 11, 2007 11:43 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Is fusa tuitim na eirigh @ Jan 11 2007, 11:26 PM)
i don't get my political information from rage against the machine i just think they have pointed out some problems that we need to take actioin against. i have my own political beliefs and think that rage shows some pretty important issues.

I'm just dying to hear "your" political beliefs. Back in the day, I used to get my political information from The Beatles and the hit sitcom Friends.

Patriot76 - January 11, 2007 11:45 PM (GMT)
You still have not said what they did to get shot. They couldn't have done nothing. Give me a link to the site where you got that picture and I'll believe you.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 11:48 PM (GMT)
it's pretty obvious to see that your a conservative and i'm a liberal so i really dont' agree with you that much and i'll say it again because you people don't seem to understand i don't get my beliefs from rage against the machine i just agree with some of the things they point out and was using them as an example but since you obviously don't like them and think i get my beliefs from them i'll stop making references to them

Patriot and Facsict Fool: just because their a rock band doesn't mean that their beliefs shouldn't be taken seriously, they were political activists and musicians who expressed their beliefs through music

Patriot76 - January 11, 2007 11:53 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Is fusa tuitim na eirigh @ Jan 11 2007, 11:48 PM)
it's pretty obvious to see that your a conservative and i'm a liberal so i really dont' agree with you that much music

Well, at least we got that out of the way. But it is nothing personal, I just like to hear the actual opinions of the people on this site, that's why I don't like when people litter their posts with facts that go on for pages. I also don't like when people are influence by rock bands, but if you say you are above that, I can't complain. At least your points are concise and to the point. I'll give you a tip of the hat on that one.

Vox_Populi - January 12, 2007 12:58 AM (GMT)
1.) The Middle East overall not just Iraq is a ticking time bomb. There is SO much violence occuring between the Shi'ites and Sunnis. Israel is still being threaten by Islamic nations like Syra and Iran. One event could occur and the bomb will explode. The Middle East would erupt in horrific war, most likely pulling the rest of the worl into it, WWIII.

2.) Okay, Isa i see where you are coming from on the music thing, I myself being a musician. BUT (and that is a large but) that crowd must have done something to provoke police intervention. Peaceful protests would not have escalted to that degree. And if you have to listen to a band to find out whats wrong with this country, then either this is a band of politicians, or a band jsut trying to win popularity by appealing to a secular group, I.E. Liberals.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 12, 2007 04:35 AM (GMT)
the crowd got to near to the staples center the convention was being held at and "concerned" the police who fired at them and the whole thing took to the streets and got ugly but the police should have never fired on the crowd if they weren't being violent

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 12, 2007 04:36 AM (GMT)
rage agaisnt the machine's members were very political and knew what they were talking about all their songs were poltical and i don't think they were doing it for attention

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 12, 2007 04:39 AM (GMT)
Bush is screwing up even more by increasing troops while we should be getting out of there too many americans and innocent iraqi civilians have died for a war we never should have started now Bush's approval rating has dropped to 29%, 70% of americans are against the new troop increase, and members of his own party are speaking out against him - worst president we've had in a long time

1800 - January 12, 2007 05:55 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Is fusa tuitim na eirigh @ Jan 12 2007, 04:39 AM)
Bush is screwing up even more by increasing troops while we should be getting out of there too many americans and iraqi civilians have died for a war we never should have started now Bush's approval rating has dropped to 29%, 70% of americans are against the new troop increase, and members of his own party are speaking out against him - worst president we've had in a long time

What do the American people know? All we can do is watch the news.

There's a few Marines that live in my neighborhood, and they all don't watch the news in Iraq because it's so twisted that it's just lies. When they first arrived in Iraq, they say 98% of the people wanted them there, and that it's decreced just a little to 90%. So would you rather trust a corrupt journalist that only shares his view and a hard rock band singer (well known for their education and intelligence), or someone who willingly, without complaint joins the army and fights for the freedom of mankind everyday in fight that no one back home supports.

Patriot76 - January 12, 2007 09:34 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (1800 @ Jan 12 2007, 05:55 AM)
What do the American people know? All we can do is watch the news.


Thankyou. The war in Iraq is being played off bad by the LIBERAL media. We are helping them more than Is Fasa can phathom. It seems you get most of your facts from rock bands and liberal, ignorant news casters. I'm this as constructive critisism, but you won't get anywhere if you don't formulate your own facts and stop being so naive.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 13, 2007 03:58 PM (GMT)
now since most americans don't support the war in iraq maybe that can lead to them voting for a democratic president next time around, the american people have already shown their discontent by electing a democratic congress, if we end up with a democratic congress and president in the next few years maybe they can get some things done like getting us out of iraq

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - January 14, 2007 02:04 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Is fusa tuitim na eirigh @ Jan 13 2007, 03:58 PM)
now since most americans don't support the war in iraq
the american people have already shown their discontent by electing a democratic congress, if we end up with a democratic congress and president in the next few years maybe they can get some things done like getting us out of iraq

Why would that be?....Perhaps largely on part of the liberal media.
If we end up with a democratic president who pulls out then in about a year or so we would have to come back, with the situation being so much times worse.
Is Fusa what would you do in the presidents place, would you pull the troops out?

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 14, 2007 03:07 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Nemo Me Impune Lacessit @ Jan 14 2007, 02:04 AM)
QUOTE (Is fusa tuitim na eirigh @ Jan 13 2007, 03:58 PM)
now since most americans don't support the war in iraq
the american people have already shown their discontent by electing a democratic congress, if we end up with a democratic congress and president in the next few years maybe they can get some things done like getting us out of iraq

Why would that be?....Perhaps largely on part of the liberal media.
If we end up with a democratic president who pulls out then in about a year or so we would have to come back, with the situation being so much times worse.
Is Fusa what would you do in the presidents place, would you pull the troops out?

i know i wouldn't send more in, i'd probably gradually reduce u.s. troops while working on iraqi forces gaining more control and being able to run things, i'd let the iraqis start handling problems on their own but still have some troops there to support the iraqi government if needed, after i was sure iraq could handle it self i'd pull out, but i wouldn't send more troops in or pull them all out at once

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 14, 2007 03:10 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Nemo Me Impune Lacessit @ Jan 14 2007, 02:04 AM)

Why would that be?....Perhaps largely on part of the liberal media.

not all the media is liberal, fox news channel is very conservative and it convinces people that we should be sending more troops to iraq and conservative media like fox news influences you and all the other conservatives

FacistFalangistFool - January 14, 2007 03:11 AM (GMT)
Foxnews is pretty conservative. Well you have to have balance somewhere don't you?

Patriot76 - January 14, 2007 05:00 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Is fusa tuitim na eirigh @ Jan 14 2007, 03:07 AM)
i know i wouldn't send more in, i'd probably gradually reduce u.s. troops while working on iraqi forces gaining more control and being able to run things, i'd let the iraqis start handling problems on their own but still have some troops there to support the iraqi government if needed, after i was sure iraq could handle it self i'd pull out, but i wouldn't send more troops in or pull them all out at once

By the end of Bush's term we should gradually begin pulling out, like you said, when the government and army is stable enough to secure the country. Before, you sounded much more radical, like you wanted to pull out all of the troops at once.

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - January 17, 2007 11:17 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Is fusa tuitim na eirigh @ Jan 14 2007, 03:10 AM)
not all the media is liberal, fox news channel is very conservative and it convinces people that we should be sending more troops to iraq and conservative media like fox news influences you and all the other conservatives

Lol, I don't watch fox news. Is the majority of news programs liberal? Or is it balanced out?

FacistFalangistFool - January 18, 2007 01:28 AM (GMT)
Yes, a majority of news channels are liberally biased. Fox, however, is conservatively biased. There is no inbetween, unfortunately. And besides, you have to have balance somewhere.




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