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Title: What I havesaid all along...
Description: Summed up in a neat little poll!


FacistFalangistFool - January 10, 2007 04:51 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
Georgetown [University] Announces Release of 2004 American Muslim Poll

Source

Ah, I have been waiting for this poll to come out. Let's look at some of the numbers. Or, more importantly, the one I want to stress on:

QUOTE
Nine of every ten (90%) American Muslims surveyed say Muslims should and want to participate in interfaith activities.


Interfaith activities. Such as prayer with other faiths. What happened to them wanting to kill each other if this happened? It simply reinforces my statement, but with a little adjustment: Interfaith activities during elementary school of the US school system would do this country, and Islam, good. By educating Islamic young children about other religions, you thus "Americanize" the religion, neutering them just as Christianity was neutered, reducing their extremism.

However, this next number scares me:
QUOTE
A plurality of American Muslims says the U.S. is fighting a war on Islam (38%) rather than terror (33%).


This represents Islam's view of the World: That it's Islam against the world. While Muslims wish to study with other faiths, they also claim that the United States is trying to destroy Islam. I hate to say it, but this is, in technicality, true. We are trying to destroy Islam as it is currently: an extremist religion. Eliminate it completely, no, but re-adjust it to the modern world. I believe THAT is the way to win the war on terror. And if we aren't, than we should be. Not destroy Islam, per-se, but destroy what it is by dilluting it's extremism in a drench of Americanism. It's very possible, as these Muslims have demonstrated. Our greatest threat could easily be sanctified with a little "culture war" that this country just isn't willing to fight. Because as you can see:
QUOTE
The poll found 53% of American Muslim voters say they believe Muslims should vote as a bloc for a presidential candidate.


With a growing Muslim population and WITHOUT dilluting their extremism, THIS data is what will be the death of us. A large Muslim bloc who consider themselves "Muslim" before "American" (as by Pewglobal, who says that 50% of Muslims want to remain a distinct culture seperate from American ways and that number is growing) growing and being able to vote together and have sway in government. Once their religion is less-radical, this would be no problem. Until then, if this pattern continues, we are gonna have some problems with a huge (and the fastest growing!) Islamic bloc voting on semi-extremist principles. Maybe not for 20, maybe not for 50 years, but this will pose a problem. It already does in Europe.

Patriot76 - January 10, 2007 09:34 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Jan 10 2007, 04:51 AM)
However, this next number scares me:
QUOTE
A plurality of American Muslims says the U.S. is fighting a war on Islam (38%) rather than terror (33%).


This represents Islam's view of the World: That it's Islam against the world. While Muslims wish to study with other faiths, they also claim that the United States is trying to destroy Islam. I hate to say it, but this is, in technicality, true. We are trying to destroy Islam as it is currently: an extremist religion. Eliminate it completely, no, but re-adjust it to the modern world. I believe THAT is the way to win the war on terror. And if we aren't, than we should be. Not destroy Islam, per-se, but destroy what it is by dilluting it's extremism in a drench of Americanism. It's very possible, as these Muslims have demonstrated. Our greatest threat could easily be sanctified with a little "culture war" that this country just isn't willing to fight. Because as you can see:
QUOTE
The poll found 53% of American Muslim voters say they believe Muslims should vote as a bloc for a presidential candidate.


With a growing Muslim population and WITHOUT dilluting their extremism, THIS data is what will be the death of us. A large Muslim bloc who consider themselves "Muslim" before "American" (as by Pewglobal, who says that 50% of Muslims want to remain a distinct culture seperate from American ways and that number is growing) growing and being able to vote together and have sway in government. Once their religion is less-radical, this would be no problem. Until then, if this pattern continues, we are gonna have some problems with a huge (and the fastest growing!) Islamic bloc voting on semi-extremist principles. Maybe not for 20, maybe not for 50 years, but this will pose a problem. It already does in Europe.

I am surprised to hear that you are scared because 38% of Muslims as opposed to 33%, 5% LESS, think we want to destroy Islam. Either way, neither are a majority (what happened to the other 29%). And if you are relating the new muslim neutering you suggest to the neutering of the Christians in the past, you are destroying their religion by your own logic of " America doesn't have a strong enough religion." Don't get me wrong, I am relieved that Muslims are all for inter-faith activities, and even encouraged that ANY Muslims at all think America's war is just (against terrorism).

And as for your bloc voting, only half of the American Muslims are in favor of it and American Muslims are a minority group. In reality, out of the 300 million plus people in America, how much will 50% of Muslims sway the country?

Perhaps some where down the line, there will be a large number of muslims in America, but if Muslims who have immigrated here have children, will they not be more "Americanized" then the generation before. And if 90% of the generation before advocated interfaith learning and tolerance, it doesn't seem too bad. You have dilluted the point i am guessing you are trying to make of neutering Islam with this data.

FacistFalangistFool - January 10, 2007 09:48 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
And as for your bloc voting, only half of the American Muslims are in favor of it and American Muslims are a minority group. In reality, out of the 300 million plus people in America, how much will 50% of Muslims sway the country?


Currently, not much. But your thinking is how it all started in Europe too. "Oh, they can't have any way! There are so little of them!" Now look what happened. I'm not saying right this minute. Im saying 20-50 years, it will start to be a problem.

And I never said sway the country. I said:
QUOTE
With a growing Muslim population and WITHOUT dilluting their extremism, THIS data is what will be the death of us. A large Muslim bloc who consider themselves "Muslim" before "American" (as by Pewglobal, who says that 50% of Muslims want to remain a distinct culture seperate from American ways and that number is growing) growing and being able to vote together and have sway in government.


They may not be able to sway the rest of the American people, no. But A Muslim group who sees themselves as Islamic before American voting as a bloc on certain aspects? This may not seem as much of a problem now with so few Muslims, but as I stated, it is the FASTEST growing religion in this country (over 33,000 a half year, according to Pewglobal). 66,000 a year times 20 years=1,320,000 Muslims. Add that to the current population. And what if the increase factor increases and it grows by 70, 80 thousand a year? What if you extend that to fifty years? Then you start to see the effects. This will not be a problem if they are successfully Americanized and "dilluted" as I have said through interfaith groups at young ages, making the second and third generations and even some first generations of new Muslims less and less extreme as the years pass. Then having a large Islamic Bloc will be no problem in 20-50 years.

QUOTE
Either way, neither are a majority (what happened to the other 29%).

The other 29% did not respond. That's not the point. MORE muslims think the US is trying declare war on Islam instead of Terror.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 10, 2007 10:55 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Jan 10 2007, 04:51 AM)

I hate to say it, but this is, in technicality, true. We are trying to destroy Islam as it is currently: an extremist religion.

Since when are we fighting a war to try and destroy Islam. The war on terror has nothing to do with destroying the Islam religion. Most Muslims aren't terrorists. You are trying to make this into some kind of religious or cultural war which it isn't.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 10, 2007 11:01 PM (GMT)
FascistFool: What are these problems in Europe caused by Muslims that your talking about? Right now if you look at the EU's economy it's just as strong as ours. source

Patriot76 - January 10, 2007 11:37 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Jan 10 2007, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE
Either way, neither are a majority (what happened to the other 29%).

The other 29% did not respond. That's not the point. MORE muslims think the US is trying declare war on Islam instead of Terror.

ONLY 5% MORE. And if you count the other 29 as undecided, or any other thing for that matter, that would mean 52% don't think it is a war on Islam.

Patriot76 - January 10, 2007 11:41 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Is fusa tuitim na eirigh @ Jan 10 2007, 10:55 PM)
Most Muslims aren't terrorists.  You are  trying to make this into some kind of religious or cultural war which it isn't.

That maybe true, but as a wise man once said : Most Muslim's aren't terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslim.

Patriot76 - January 10, 2007 11:55 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Is fusa tuitim na eirigh @ Jan 10 2007, 11:01 PM)
FascistFool:  What are these problems in Europe caused by Muslims that your talking about? Right now if you look at the EU's economy it's just as strong as ours.  source

First of all, if the United States, one country is as good as the EU, a whole continent, then Europe is in shambles. For future refference, I find wikipedia to be a very unreliable source considering it is open to editing from the public.

Secondly, FacistFool was talking more about Muslim problems in specific countries and instances, not countinent wide, although that is how its turning out.

Here some proof in just one country. The links on the bottom lead to immmigration of other continents and you can see the Muslim immiggration there as well.

FacistFool: according to this site, in the link under North America, in 2003, less than 8% of all immigrants to America were from the Middle East and probably less than that. The Muslim population is rising much slower than you predict.

FacistFalangistFool - January 10, 2007 11:58 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
Most Musilim's aren't terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslim.


And not only that Isa fusa blah blah blah, but:
QUOTE
Two leaders of a mosque in Albany have been charged with plotting to murder a Pakistani diplomat in New York City. Muslim-American activist Kamal Nawash told The Factor that Muslim leaders need to speak out against terror: "We have to come out and admit that we have a problem with extremism... it's a movement that's been growing for twenty years throughout the entire Muslim world." Nawash further claimed that many as fifty percent of Muslims around the world support the goals of the extremists.
QUOTE
New evidence of trouble in the eurozone came on Thursday morning with news that industrial output in France fell sharply in April, dropping 0.8%.

Germany's output had been hit even harder, dropping 1% in April according to figures released on Wednesday
QUOTE
Now, as the European Union grapples with a deepening political crisis, it is discovering the costs of a Germany that is too weak.

With Europe's leaders waging a nasty war of words over the future of their union, Germany might have been expected to play its usual role: bridging the gap between the competing French and British, and opening its checkbook to smooth over money squabbles.

Generally, it would have been expected to have support what is known as the European Project on its broad Teutonic shoulders.

This time, however, Berlin is AWOL.

Burdened by huge debts and a stagnant economy, it can no longer afford to be the European Union's sugar daddy.

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 12:04 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
FacistFool: according to this site, in the link under North America, in 2003, less than 8% of all immigrants to America were from the Middle East and probably less than that. The Muslim population is rising much slower than you predict.


I don't mean only from Immigration. I mean conversions, which
QUOTE
From Table 1-1 you can see that the world growth rate of Muslims is 2.13, and for Christians it is 1.36. A closer look reveals, however that the birth rate of Muslims world wide, is literally double that of Christians.

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 12:10 AM (GMT)
And, Isa, Look at this. No problems in Europe Huh?
QUOTE
France, Denmark, Germany, and Belgium now suffer battle scars as law enforcement across these countries deal with rioting, mostly on the part of Muslim youths ( Denmark Moslem youth riots ignored while Paris is burning ), ( Cars ablaze in third night of arson attacks in Belgium ). After 13 nights of unrest in France, the rioting has decreased, but the damage is done. If riots happened in the U.S., the offenders would be either shot or disabled in some way. After the mayhem of Hurricane Katrina, looters faced police officers who were ready to shoot. Then there was a situation involving looters and police engaged in a shootout

on a bridge in New Orleans. The point...the police engaged the looters, they did not take a defensive position as the French police seem to have been doing.

The emergency steps the French government came up with in response to the riots...to impose a curfew. There were some arrests, but a further step would be to deport the perpetrators as soon as possible. No more appeasement. If one seeks to move to a new country, to make it their home, he/she must assimilate into the culture and contribute by means of employment. If there are specific grievances, they can be handled appropriately, but not by rioting and putting fellow immigrants who are working hard at risk, putting anyone's life in danger by your actions.

Thugs have disrupted communities in France ...in over 300 towns and cities. Amid the chaos, rioters are viciously harming citizens ( Paris rioters Set Woman Afire as Violence Spreads ) ...an innocent man dies after being beat to death and rioters set a disabled woman on fire. Since French law enforcement was slow in their effort to squash the violence, copycats in other countries are getting in on the act and causing problems in communities across Europe. The French failed to send a message right away, rioting will not be tolerated, and immediately take measures to let people know you are serious. When a society faces riots, action must be taken immediately to regain control. Simply arresting violators certainly won't do, they will just get back on the street again in the future and continue to cause problems. I say deport and adopt strict new immigration laws to curb the number of foreigners coming into the country.

This is one reason why the political correct "open-borders" approach will not work, and Islam needs to be integrated.

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 12:42 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Patriot76 @ Jan 10 2007, 11:55 PM)
First of all, if the United States, one country is as good as the EU, a whole continent, then Europe is in shambles. For future refference, I find wikipedia to be a very unreliable source considering it is open to editing from the public.

I agree with you that the U.S. shows it's economic strength by being just as good as the E.U. But I disagree with you saying that Europe is in shambles. In 2005 London handled 31% of global currency and more US dollars were traded than in NYC. i know its from wikipedia but i don't think the numbers would be false banks.other london economy info



And then Deutche Bank from Germany is one of the world's best investment

But then again countries like Poland and Hungary have bad economies so I don't think Europe should be judged as a whole because some European economis are in shambles but some European economies do very well

Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 11, 2007 12:51 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Jan 10 2007, 11:58 PM)

And not only that Isa fusa blah blah blah, but:

if your thinking im muslim because of my username im not it's an old Gaelic proverb which means falling is easier than rising

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 01:09 AM (GMT)
No not at all. It's just hard to type. :lol:

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - January 11, 2007 01:36 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Jan 10 2007, 04:51 AM)
What happened to them wanting to kill each other if this happened?

It simply reinforces my statement, but with a little adjustment: Interfaith activities during elementary school of the US school system would do this country, and Islam, good.

By educating Islamic young children about other religions, you thus "Americanize" the religion, neutering them just as Christianity was neutered, reducing their extremism.

However, this next number scares me:
QUOTE
A plurality of American Muslims says the U.S. is fighting a war on Islam (38%) rather than terror (33%).


We are trying to destroy Islam as it is currently: an extremist religion. Eliminate it completely, no, but re-adjust it to the modern world. I believe THAT is the way to win the war on terror. And if we aren't, than we should be. Not destroy Islam, per-se, but destroy what it is by dilluting it's extremism in a drench of Americanism.

With a growing Muslim population and WITHOUT dilluting their extremism, THIS data is what will be the death of us.

Get your facts straight, who said they would want to kill each other, your over exaggerating you don't have to put an emphasize on everything Muslim.

Interesting theory you have there, you propose go to elementary students, my reasoning for your choice is if you brought it up to high schools, you probably would get ridiculed for it, not only that but as I state time and time again most kids wouldn't care. I'd rather have the kids fully aware of what they're getting themselves into by taking religious courses during elementary school, any details on your plan? But till then my stance stays that kids that age are not fully aware of what they are getting themselves into in comparison with high school kids.

An Americanization would naturally occur seeing as they aer young kids, and I don't know why you don't see it but Islamic kids in the U.S. are not the type of radicals you would want to be focusing on. Yeah I know you said that they could spread your so called message of intolerant tolerance, but there are repercussions to that.

AH! This is what I consider to be your root of your obsession with Islam, I believe it steams from a fear of Muslims. (just my opinion)

You honestly think by trying to change Islam in America (which is not at all as radical as foreign Islam) that you would change those so called poll results in a positive way? Hm...I only think by trying to change their relgion only gives them more of a right to say that your waging war on them, so you shouldn't be surprised by that.

You just can't let this go can you?....Might I ask what is your obsession with Muslims, I shouldn't say fascination seeing as how radically involved with this you are. You give them way to much credit, it's actually people like you who do Islamic terrorists job for them by spreading your wild theories which are based off of your fears of Islam at most.

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - January 11, 2007 01:38 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Jan 11 2007, 01:09 AM)
No not at all. It's just hard to type. :lol:

LOL!! It's not like typing all those blah's would have saved you time.

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 08:35 PM (GMT)
Fear? No. I'm just not blind to the repercussions of NOT having them assimilate can do. But if you don't want to hear about it, then fine. You won't hear it anymore. But a little parting gift:

Read This Interview with an Ex-Muslim

and:
This one.

See, and those are written by people who know alot more about it than you or me. I'm not some crazy Islamophobe.

Did you know - Quran (4:34) orders a man to beat his wife if she doesn't obey him?
QUOTE
Quran 4:34: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.


It seems only Ex-Muslims can see what you don't want to believe.

Last but not least, a little bit from the Quran (which I just purchased for reference):

QUOTE
"Strike off their [infidel's] heads. Strike off their finger-tips! … because they defied God and his Apostle [Muhammad]." (Sura 8:12-13)

"Make war on them [infidels] until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Sura 2:193)

"Seize them and put them to death wherever you find them." (Sura 4:89)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you." (Sura 9:123)

"When the sacred months [Ramadan] are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them; besiege them; and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent [convert to Islam] and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way." (Sura 9:5)


Yup. Nothing to worry about. But don't worry, this is my final topic about anything related to trying to help the US help Islam be less intolerant.

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 08:43 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
American laws will protect us.

Democrats and Leftist will support us.

The UNO will legitimize us.

CAIR and MAB will incubate us.

The ACLU will support us.

Western Universities will educate us.

Mosques in the West will shelter us.

OPEC will finance us.

Moderate Muslims will fertilize us.

Hollywood will love us.

Koffi Annan will publish the politically correct sympathetic statements for Jihadists.

We will use your (West) welfare system.

We will take advantage of American kindness, gullibility, and compassion. When time comes, we will stab America in the back as we did on 9/11 and 7/7, the Islamic way. We will say one thing on the camera (Islam is the religion of peace) and teach another thing (Quran 8:12 Terrorize and behead the infidels wherever you find them) to our children at home.

We will teach our children Islamic supremacy from their earliest childhood. We will take over Europe first and then the U.S. will be the next. We already have a solid ground in the UK, Holland, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Germany, and now in the U.S.

Who are we? We are the “sleeper cells” next door.

At the time of the real fight we will hold our own children as our armor – this is the Islamic way. When American or Israeli troops shoot at us the world will be watching. Imagine, just imagine the news in the world: “Death of Muslim babies by infidels”.

We say to the West: Keep your Nukes in your curio cabinets. Keep your aircraft carriers and high-tech weaponry in the showcase. You can't use them against us because of your own higher moral standard. We will take the advantage of your (Western) higher moral standard and use it against you. We won’t hesitate to use our children as suicide bombers against you.

The West manufactures their tanks in the factory. We Muslims will manufacture our military force by natural means — by producing more babies. It is cheaper that way. You infidels cannot defeat us. We are 1.2 billion strong and we will double our population again.

Using the Western legal system we will assert our Sharia Laws, slowly but surely.

Moderate Muslims will say there is no link between Islam and terrorism and the West will believe it because the West is so gullible. Moderate Muslims all over the world will inadvertently incubate Jihadists by defending Islam as a religion of peace, by telling this to their children and the world.

There will be more 9/11s in Europe and in America. We will say, “We do not support terrorism but America got what it deserved.”

We will recite the Quran and say Allah-Hu-Akbar before beheading infidels, as we have been doing it. We will videotape those and send them to infidels to watch. The infidels will surrender — ISLAM means surrender.

Islam is the fastest growing religion among convicts in prison all over the word. 30% of French prison inmates are already converted to Islam.

We will use your (Western) own values of kindness against you. You (the West) are destined to lose.


QUOTE
Our freedom already is curtailed. No major newspapers, magazines, or TV reproduced the Mohammad cartoons in America. They were afraid. So, in effect, 6 million Muslims in America and 1.2 billion Muslims around the globe severely restricted our freedom of expression without officially legislating their Sharia laws that prohibits Mohammad’s caricature.


The entire text from the quote she uses in one of her articles.
Source

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 09:12 PM (GMT)
And sure, God forbid I advocate prayer in schools to preserve OUR culture, but Muslims get the courts to say: "Sure! Teach our kids about Islam!"

San -Francisco Chronicle

QUOTE
The U.S. Supreme Court rejected an appeal Monday by evangelical Christian students and their parents who said a Contra Costa County school district engaged in unconstitutional religious indoctrination when it taught students about Islam by having them recite language from prayers.

The court, without comment, left intact a ruling by the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco last November in favor of the Byron Union School District in eastern Contra Costa.

The suit challenged the content of a seventh-grade history course at Excelsior Middle School in Byron in the fall of 2001. The teacher, using an instructional guide, told students they would adopt roles as Muslims for three weeks to help them learn what Muslims believe.

She encouraged them to use Muslim names, recited prayers in class, had them memorize and recite a passage from the Quran and made them give up something for a day, such as television or candy, to simulate fasting during the month of Ramadan.


Hmph. No problem though.

Patriot76 - January 11, 2007 09:15 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Jan 11 2007, 08:35 PM)
But don't worry, this is my final topic about anything related to trying to help the US help Islam be less intolerant.

Well that lasted all of seven minutes. And I hate to say it, but Nemo brings up a good point, by trying to "protect" America from radical Muislims, you are only spreading their messages and cruelty.

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 09:16 PM (GMT)
I said topic, not post. Go read all the articles and stuff I posted. I did not post them for no reason.

Patriot76 - January 11, 2007 09:21 PM (GMT)
I did read your articles and I have no objection to them. I don't really see how that has anything to do with what I just said though.

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 09:23 PM (GMT)
If you have no objection to my articles, then why do you disagree with what I say? Why do you not take Islam seriously?

Patriot76 - January 11, 2007 09:29 PM (GMT)
I do not take Islam as a joke that can be disregarded. What gave you that idea?
I am entitled to my own opinion, that is why I disagree with you
'intolerant tolerance" policy.

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 09:33 PM (GMT)
Oh, so you simply suggest we kill as many as we can? How do YOU propose dealing with Islam then? It's so easy to shoot holes through my ideas but not as easy to come up with one of your own. I could have just as easily said "WE NEED TO KILL ALL MUSLIMS THEY ARE EVIL!!" Instead I tried to think of a more easing-in approach, but apparently even that is too harsh for you. That's what gave me that impression, that you don't think Islam is a threat and doesn't need to be "changed." That thinking is why Europe has frequent problems with Muslims currently. Ex-Muslims come out and SAY the US needs to do more about the Muslim issue, and nobody listens! But God forbid I say that we simply need to educate young Muslim children to be more tolerant and try and make Islam less intolerant, and I am an intolerant, racist, religion-loving, muslim obsessed lunatic. And of course you are entitled to your opinion.

Patriot76 - January 11, 2007 09:55 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Jan 11 2007, 09:33 PM)
Oh, so you simply suggest we kill as many as we can? How do YOU propose dealing with Islam then? It's so easy to shoot holes through my ideas but not as easy to come up with one of your own. I could have just as easily said "WE NEED TO KILL ALL MUSLIMS THEY ARE EVIL!!" Instead I tried to think of a more easing-in approach, but apparently even that is too harsh for you. That's what gave me that impression, that you don't think Islam is a threat and doesn't need to be "changed." That thinking is why Europe has frequent problems with Muslims currently. Ex-Muslims come out and SAY the US needs to do more about the Muslim issue, and nobody listens! But God forbid I say that we simply need to educate young Muslim children to be more tolerant and try and make Islam less intolerant, and I am an intolerant, racist, religion-loving, muslim obsessed lunatic. And of course you are entitled to your opinion.

When did I EVER SAY we should solve these problems by shooting them full of holes and killing them all.

Do you really want to know why no one else has given a solution to the Muslim problem? It is because you can't cure emotion! You can't cure how people feel about other people, you can't fix radicals, you ca't institute SCHOOL programs to change RELIGIOUS problems, and you can't fix people.

You want my solution. Islam IS the government in the Middle East and that is the ROOT of the problem, not Muslims already in America! We are in the process of solving that problem in Iraq and in my opinion, already have. The radical Muslims have no more foot hold in the Iraqi government and Iran WILL be soon to follow. My solution is time. As they say, time heals all wounds and it will resolve that of the Radical Islam.

You say more Muslims come to America than Christians. But How many Christians are BORN in America each year as opposed to Muslims. It's not like thier flooding in the borders and rotting America for the inside out. I see this in Europe, there is no denying that but all your predictions of Muslioms problems in America all seem to be 50 years away. You forget one thing though, America as a country and a nationhood will grow by then as well. You act as if Islam is this almighty force that is unstoppable unles imediate action is taken place. You forget, Islam is a religion, not a country, not and empire, a RELIGION! They will never have the stregnth to rise up and overthrow America. You act as if one day, every Muslim country will unite to overthrow the balance of the earth. I am sure the Muslims of the ancient time thought the same thing as millions of Christian crusaders cam to take their land and spread their religion with a sword.

You throw your facts around saying " If you don't believe me listen to this" followed by a link. MOst of your links are opinions, just like yours. Without any thought of the future. As I have said America as a unified country will grow far more then the dividded factions of Islam will in the next dare I say 100 years!

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 10:09 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
When did I EVER SAY we should solve these problems by shooting them full of holes and killing them all.


You never did. But you thought of them as a threat, and never agreed with my possible ways of combatting it, so I took to assumtions.

QUOTE
Do you really want to know why no one else has given a solution to the Muslim problem? It is because you can't cure emotion! You can't cure how people feel about other people, you can't fix radicals, you ca't institute SCHOOL programs to change RELIGIOUS problems, and you can't fix people.


And yet, we were able to "fix" the Nazi's during and after WWII. We were able to "cure" the anger they felt and their hate of Jews and, well, everyone. We were able to "cure" the emotion of thousands of Immigrants who came to this country hating other races when they got here, and ended up living right next to them. But no, it's not possible with Islam right? YOU are empowering them by saying thi. By stating yourself that you can't fix islam, you only reinforce my opinion that this country has grown weak in the sense of fighting a common enemy.

QUOTE
You want my solution. Islam IS the government in the Middle East and that is the ROOT of the problem, not Muslims already in America! We are in the process of solving that problem in Iraq and in my opinion, already have. The radical Muslims have no more foot hold in the Iraqi government and Iran WILL be soon to follow. My solution is time. As they say, time heals all wounds and it will resolve that of the Radical Islam.


Because hundreds of years since it's founding wasn't enough time? Islam IS the government in the middle east, you are right, and the muslims already in america want it to be that way here. Not all of them, but a pretty large chunk.

QUOTE
You forget, Islam is a religion, not a country, not and empire, a RELIGION!

A religion that you just said youself IS the government of many countries and once DID have an empire. The ottoman empire, the safavid empire, and many other ALL were "Islamic Empires." Islam is both a religion and a country. Muslims consider themselves Muslim before anything else.

QUOTE
As I have said America as a unified country will grow far more then the dividded factions of Islam will in the next dare I say 100 years!

Yeah, we're so unified we can't even decide on what to do with Iraq. Unified in country we may be, but unified as people and thought we are not. And the Sunni/Shiaa split does not exist in the extremists of europe, only in the middle eastern mainland.

Patriot76 - January 11, 2007 11:37 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Jan 11 2007, 10:09 PM)
And yet, we were able to "fix" the Nazi's during and after WWII. We were able to "cure" the anger they felt and their hate of Jews and, well, everyone. We were able to "cure" the emotion of thousands of Immigrants who came to this country hating other races when they got here, and ended up living right next to them. But no, it's not possible with Islam right? YOU are empowering them by saying thi. By stating yourself that you can't fix islam, you only reinforce my opinion that this country has grown weak in the sense of fighting a common enemy.

Because hundreds of years since it's founding wasn't enough time? Islam IS the government in the middle east, you are right, and the muslims already in america want it to be that way here. Not all of them, but a pretty large chunk.

A religion that you just said youself IS the government of many countries and once DID have an empire. The ottoman empire, the safavid empire, and many other ALL were "Islamic Empires." Islam is both a religion and a country. Muslims consider themselves Muslim before anything else.


Really, because I seem to recall the "curing" of Nazism with war, not tolerance and have you ever heard of Neo-Nazis. No, of course not, we "cure" all hating of Jews everywhere! You cannot cure a feeling and I do not empower Islam by saying this. It's called common sense. If a have to say it I will, the only way to stop the Islam you build up to be a world destroying parasite is the same fate as the Nazi's suffered...At the end of a gun! IS THIS WHAT YOU WANTED TO HEAR?!?!

The big chunk of Muslim Americans are Americans first, not radicals. ONCE AGAIN AS YOU HAVE SAID IN THIS VERY POST-The Middle East is the mainland for the radical MUslims and all the religious splits, not America. Why relate this to America at all.

I noticed when you talked about almost 100 year old empires you used the past tense a lot...Oh wait...THAT"S BECAUSE IT WAS THE PAST! Who cares about the Ottoman empire (current day Turkey which is one of the least radical Islamic nations). That is history. Everyone will agree that ISLAM IS NOT A COUNRTY! You "empower" terrorism by saying this. You speak as them as an almighty pillar that can never be toppled...you have succumb to the fear they aim to spread!

FacistFalangistFool - January 11, 2007 11:44 PM (GMT)
How is trying to fight them succumbing to them? And no, most american muslims DO NOT CONSIDER THEMSELVES AMERICAN FIRST. I have Muslim girl in my english class, a very smart girl, who came out and said she hated this country. My father works with a Muslim man who hates this country.

And yes, I wanted to hear that. Because you know what, I believe that. But that kind of thinking will get Me, and you, nowhere. Its the rational thinking that will get people to respect you, which is why I have attempted for so long to try and stick with the lesser of two evils and say "assimilation" over "killing". I realized that if I continued to sit there and say "Islam is evil. We need to bomb them into the ground." People (liberals) look at me worse than the actual Muslims I am trying to fight against. The only way to get ALL of America on your side is somewhere inbetween. Give Islam a fight, but not necessarily with normal weapons. As Muslims said in that quote I gave you, they ARENT afraid to use children as shields, and then have it displayed on our TV screens as us shooting children. It's a lose-lose situation that way.

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - January 12, 2007 12:34 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (FacistFalangistFool @ Jan 11 2007, 11:44 PM)
How is trying to fight them succumbing to them?

Its the rational thinking that will get people to respect you.

NO, I believe he meant your obsession with them, possibly rooted to a fear of them,
is what makes you an ideal victim to them, they want people like you to spread the word of their so called "power" hoping that others will follow in response, this is how they gain power. You in accordance to your fear try to fight Islam by changing it, which would only cause more anti American feelings to arise and better prove the point of more Muslims believing that Americans are more or less fighting a war with Islam. Oh yeah, simply because there are some Muslims who hate this country doesn't they are radical enough to launch attacks against it, maybe this feeling is a result of more Muslims believing that Americans would prefer to wage war against Islam. If this is true then it would be because of people like you they believe this (if you want me to explain just say so and I will go into detail) so by trying to change Islam in your vain attempt to save this country you have already doomed it.

You tend to be more radical than rational.

FacistFalangistFool - January 12, 2007 02:22 AM (GMT)
Yes. Because my plan is SO much more radical than suggesting just killing all muslims, right? Yeah. Condoning education of American Muslims to make them less tolerant is SOOO radical.

Bahra - January 12, 2007 04:00 AM (GMT)
Hello all! I wasn't going to sign up for the forums, but this topic really interested me.

I am a Muslim convert to Christianity. (well, technically not yet. I'm not old enough really to be a real convert). My parents are very Muslim and conservative Muslim at that (i.e. very strict) And after reading this and FacistFool's other topic, I have a few comments that my suprise you guys.

First, I want you guys to understand something. Islam is not a peaceful religion. This is one of the reasons I wanna convert. I can't yet, tho. If my parents found out, they might seriously consider sending me to Bahrain (where they immigrated from), where, unless I converted back to Islam, I would be jailed or killed. Facistfool is right in quite a few respects, and his opinions shouldn't just be simply shot down. Not all, but alot of his opinions are not far from the truth.

Facistfool's Claim: "Muslims consider themselves Muslim before anything else."

I will be the first to tell you this is absolutely true. My parents and older brother all despise this country with a passion (they call it "the country of the devil".) We, as Muslims, look at ourselves as Muslim. Not AMerican. Not French.

Second Claim: "Islam is harming/transforming Europe."

Now, I have relatives in Europe. They all tell us the same thing when they call: "It is becoming more like the old country every day!" They nearly have half sharia law in many parts of Europe. They can't fight it now, though. There are too many Muslims there now. Cousins of mine were part of a riot in Belgium. They laughed at how the police did nothing.

Third Claim: "Islam is a threat."

Depending on your defenition of threat, this is absolutely correct. To freedom and the western world as you now it, Islam is a MAJOR threat. Americans need to realize: They don't care how nice you are, how many times you let them get away with stuff, let them use the Qu'ran instead of the Bible! They want you and your culture destroyed. Understand? And no, it is not just the extremists. My parents and their entire church and all Muslims in my family and their friends and my entire extended family and their friends ALL support extremist goals. Donnt' worry, they aren't gonna go blow themselves up. But they aren't gonna stop the extremists either. My parents cheered on 9/11. We had a barbeque the next day. It is the most sadistic thing I have ever seen. You guys need to wake up. You know that little thing facist quoted? "ACLU will protect us" etc..? Yeah. We said that as a prayer regularly in our church. No, Facistfool isn't just some crazy Islamophobe. He's right.

Fourth Claim: "We need to educate Muslims to religious tolerance."

While I agree with you here, Facistfool, you are being to light. Don't listen to the others, you are not radical at all. As a matter of fact, that is a decently liberal view. Islam gains respect by force: show them you are a thing to be reckoned with. They will not stop fighting, but you will ahve their respect. No more decapitations and such. And to do your idea, Muslims would probably have to be forced. I don't believe that 90% number of interfaiths group thing. I read that poll, they only interviewd 1,382 or something like that muslims. Could have been the nicest group of Muslims in the planet. Islam does not need to be AMericanized. It needs to be tamed, down and out.

Hope I helped you guys out a little, or at least woke you up. I kinda felt bad for the poor facistfool guy cuz he was fighting so hard and hes right and you guys all hated him.




Is fusa tuitim na eirigh - January 12, 2007 04:27 AM (GMT)
i think bahra may be a creation of fascistfool to have somebody else supporting his opinions on muslims because nobody else seems to support them

i doubt that living in a muslim family somebody would convert to christianity and talk about their family like that

if this isn't just another screenname from fascist fool then i apologize bahra

FacistFalangistFool - January 12, 2007 08:54 PM (GMT)
You can't make another screename with the same E-mail, Isa. They thought of stuff like that when they made forums. And Ex-Muslims DO go against Islam all the time. if maybe you read the links that I showed you in one of my prior posts, you would know. Don't be so naive.


But Bahra: Why do you think that my thing is too liberal? I thought it was a very conservative way of looking at it but prevented me from seeming too radical (despite what Nemo has said). I thought if I went rampaging about how we needed to change them at gunpoint, less people would support me. Do you really think it makes sense for someone who wants to get into politics to talk like that? Just curious as to what your ideas are.

And to Nemo: I say to you as well. Instead of criticizing my opinions, why don't you come up with one yourself on this topic and we can together form a better idea.

Patriot76 - January 12, 2007 09:12 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Bahra @ Jan 12 2007, 04:00 AM)

Hope I helped you guys out a little, or at least woke you up. I kinda felt bad for the poor facistfool guy cuz he was fighting so hard and hes right and you guys all hated him.

I don't hate FacistFool. The reason I disagreed with him and was partially shocked at what he said is the same reaon you said, it was too liberal. Considering he is Conservative in everything else he talks about, it just seemed strange to me.

Any way, I really, REALLY admire and respect what you said in this post I quoted. I am not sure if you are an immigrant yourself or were born here but regardless, more people need to have a sense of love for this country like you and I (thus my user name Patriot76). Let me just say again, thankyou.

Bahra - January 13, 2007 04:17 AM (GMT)
No, I was born here. My parents were immigrants from Bahrain, though. But thank you for your respect and compliments. I have a sense of love for this country because I have been to Bahrain and areas of Europe, and I have seen how Bahrainians live in poverty and Belgian people are, for lack of a better word, prisoners in their own country. America is the freest nation in the world. The ONLY country that I can convert FROM Islam if I wish when I am older and not have to worry about the reprecussions. But that won't last very long at this rate, which is why I just had to say something in this forum because the one person who could see through Islam's BS was being criticized. You seem like I've gotten to you, though, patriot.

FacistFool: You ARE being too liberal. Simply educating Muslims isn't going to do anything. They will simply now have a better know-how to get their agendas done. 90% of the Muslims INTERVIEWED in that "poll" you showed us said they wanted to do interfaith groups, but that was, what, a few hundred muslims? LIke I said, Islam needs to be put in check. Then and only then will they respect you. My ideas are wake America up to the blossoming threat of Islam nice and easy, then reveal to them a stringent way to stop it in its tracks. it is the only way. You are absolutely right in your premises about Muslims, everything you say about them is 99% accurate (pretty much.) It is simply your MEANS of fixing the problem I have a slight issue with.

And Is Fusa: First of all, I doubt after defending his case this entire time he would stoop to making a second name. Secondly, I am not talking bad about my family. I love my family dearly. But their priorities are completely off whack and as long as they follow that murder-handbook the Qu'ran they will always be that way. And of course I can convert. That is the great thing about America.

Patriot76 - January 13, 2007 08:08 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Bahra @ Jan 13 2007, 04:17 AM)
No, I was born here. My parents were immigrants from Bahrain, though. But thank you for your respect and compliments. I have a sense of love for this country because I have been to Bahrain and areas of Europe, and I have seen how Bahrainians live in poverty and Belgian people are, for lack of a better word, prisoners in their own country. America is the freest nation in the world. The ONLY country that I can convert FROM Islam if I wish when I am older and not have to worry about the reprecussions. But that won't last very long at this rate, which is why I just had to say something in this forum because the one person who could see through Islam's BS was being criticized. You seem like I've gotten to you, though, patriot.


That's why I hate when people bash this country when they have never left it. I ask, where would they rather be? why not drop them off in some third world country for just a week and see how they like. Just take away the freedoms they have for so long taken for granted and see how they complain. You said it best, this country is spoiled and that is why the rest of the world hates us. We have all these freedoms they would die for, and we just act as if it is nothing.

FacistFalangistFool2 - January 14, 2007 01:17 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Bahra @ Jan 12 2007, 04:00 AM)
1)First, I want you guys to understand something. Islam is not a peaceful religion.
2)Third Claim: "Islam is a threat."
Depending on your defenition of threat, this is absolutely correct. To freedom and the western world as you now it, Islam is a MAJOR threat. Americans need to realize: They don't [i]care how nice you are, how many times you let them get away with stuff, let them use the Qu'ran instead of the Bible! They want you and your culture destroyed. Understand? And no, it is not just the extremists.
3) My parents and their entire church [/I]4)No, Facistfool isn't just some crazy Islamophobe.
5)He's right. While I agree with you here, Facistfool, you are being to light. Don't listen to the others, you are not radical at all. As a matter of fact, that is a decently liberal view.
6)Facistfool is right in quite a few respects, and his opinions shouldn't just be simply shot down.
I wasn't going to sign up for the forums, but this topic really interested me.

You can't make another screename with the same E-mail, Isa. They thought of stuff like that when they made forums. Don't be so naive. The goal of this post is to strike at the similarities between facistfool and bahar

The orignal FacistFalangistFool said that, you should watch what you say about being naive,FacistFalangistFool, looks like you CAN have multiple usernames from the same Email address, an attempt by this website to boost membership no doubt.
1)A Muslim even if it was a former Muslim wouldn't say that, this would draw negative feelings towards members of their own family who are Muslim.
2)Why would a Muslim say that? This might mean notthing but nottice the all caps for major, he is trying to put stress on key words in a manner befitting of FacistFool. A Muslim would not say that Americans need to relize that they are a threat in an effort to get Americans to see how bad they were, Bahar said that Muslims see each other as Muslims first, if what he said was true Bahar would have grown up in a condition where he would have also thought that way, especailly when he went to an extremist mosk and had extremist parents etc.
Why would Bahra think it would be wrong to let Muslims use the bible instead of the Qu'ran, this is something FacistFool argued aganist.
3) Growing up under a family of extremists you would think that Bahar would know the difference between a chruch and a mosk.
4)I draw your attention to the word Islamophobe, a word only used by FacistFool, not only that but Facist was the only other person using fear basied terminology ex: xeniophobe
5)More raical words were never spoken
6)The only person who belives that could indeed be Facistfool
Find the timeframe between bahar posting and facist posting its off by a little over an hour or such this could be to draw suspeison away from bahar, even though he said that he only felt like posting right now, if he agreed with facist so much wouldnt he have posted on atleast some of facist's other posts?

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit - January 14, 2007 01:35 AM (GMT)
I higly doubt anyone on these forums would do anything like that..by your logic....for all I know you could be an offspring of Is fusa. And an angry Is fusa at that.

FacistFalangistFool - January 14, 2007 02:40 AM (GMT)
FacistFalangistFool2? Couldn't have tried to be a little more clever, Is Fusa? We all know it is you. You just don't want to believe that maybe what I have been saying is true? Just let it go, man. Like Bahra said, I have defended my position this long by myself why the hell would I go now and stoop to that level? I don't need Bahra's help to try and reinforce my opinion I can do it on my own. And he has been criticizing me anyway, in case you didn't see that. You can go ahead and keep accusing me all you want, but I know it isn't me. And thats all I care about. I am not making one more post possibly trying to cinvince you because I just don't care anymore. You can think what you want, it's not true. And thank you, Nemo, for not believing that. Although we may be opponents, we can vouch for each other's integrity ;).

And dude, are you seriously kidding me? We both use caps? I think nearly everyone on this forum has used caps at some point. He could have VERY well take Islamophobe from my other post, and xenophobe is a real word. If you nitpick like that, everyone on this forum could very well be the same person! Grow up, Is Fusa, and accept that other people may actually agree with me out there. And UH-OH!!!! WE POSTED AN HOUR APART GUYS!!!! WE HAVE TO BE THE SAME PERSON NOW!!!

I think we have the next Sherlock on hand ;). (sarcasm in case you didn't notice.)




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