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Title: Imus
Description: is freedom of speech really that


Patriot76 - April 13, 2007 01:45 PM (GMT)
i am sure by now you have heard about Imus's comments about the rutgers basketball team. After being merely suspended he was fired all together after heavy fire from people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. I did agree with them to a point, that because he said that on air he should be punished. then I started thinking about rappers. Can you honestly pick up a CD without a rapper calling a woman a "b--ch" or a "w--re." ANd how many can you find that say the dreaded "n" word multiple times. Where are Sharpton and Jackson on that one? Pulling Imus was one thing that was not much of a big deal, but seeing now how hypocritical it is, why shoudn't he be allowed back when you can here worse language from just about every rap artist out there?

dimmick - April 13, 2007 11:04 PM (GMT)
The whole situation is a load of crap.

Imus should not have said what he did, and I do agree that it merited a 2 week suspension, which was the original punishment, but firing him is overstepping the boundary. This just adds to the climate of politically correct censorship that is one of the biggest problems in our country today, a state of affairs that does nothing but add to the power of race-baiting hypocrites like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

I wouldn't normally recommend things written by Pat Buchanan, but I felt that this column pretty much summed up how I feel about the issue:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/staticarticle...ticle55179.html

FacistFalangistFool - April 17, 2007 01:58 AM (GMT)
The whole problem is that under the First Amendment his job should have been protected by freedom of speech. No matter what NBC guises it as, he was fired for speaking his opinion. He should be able to take legal recourse.

However, I disagree that what he said was out of line. In the media today, people say MUCH worse. Rappers call their own race of women "hoes" and "sluts", and yet they aren't sexist. Only Imus is. Rappers and multuple other among the black community call white people names. They aren't censured.

Besides, he wasn't punished for calling Bush and Cheyney "criminals of war" and stating that they should be shot. In my book, stating the benefits of the head of the states' death is a much worse crime then some stupid, general statement that the basketball team are "nappy-headed hoes."

Sure, it was a stupid thing to say in such a blatantly overly-liberal environment. However, if as long as a black man can call me a cracker, a muslim can call me a white devil, and either of them can continue to overextend the boundaries of "politically correct", I'm gonna stand by my previously hated Imus. Hell, Sharpton has done more to incite racial hatred than the actual freaking quote!

Renegade - April 17, 2007 02:13 AM (GMT)
Yay....more ignorant conservatives! If you morons dont see the difference between independent rappers spewing profanities out of their mouths and a radio host for a major network you have a problem...this guy is speaking on behalf of a major and credible Tv and news company...keeping him on would not only piss off alot of people but would also undermine their credibility as a legitimate tv and news channel. And obviously there are double standards for blacks and whites...the blacks didnt enslave and belittle an entire race for several centuries. There SHOULD be double standards.

FacistFalangistFool - April 17, 2007 02:59 AM (GMT)
Ah, another naive liberal. First of all, renegade, I don't care who Imus is speaking on behalf of. He, like anyone else, is entitled to say anything he wants under the first amendment. Secondly, those "independent rappers" have more of a cultural influence that Imus could have dreamed. And what they spew is alot worse. Undermine their credibility? Please, like one man saying some stupid inappropriate comment could undermine their credibility.

Thirdly, you are the first person I've ever heard acknowledge the double standard and like it. That is the most naive thing I've ever heard. Since when are double standards, in either direction, a good thing? You can't replace a double standard with another double standard! People like you fan the flames of race hatred. If a double standard didn't currently exist, less white people would be inclined to join hate groups and, as me and many of my friends, loathe the current system. If you honestly want to sit here and tell me that black people, who should be LUCKY we dragged them from colonial africa (look what it's become), should possibly get to push around the majority of Americans, then you, sir, are worse than Imus could ever be. Hell, at least he tells it like it is. By your own logic, my half-irish self should be entitled to a double standard due to the hatred against my race hundreds of years ago. Oh no, thats right. You only see in black and white.

Here's a politically correct statement for you: BLACK PEOPLE DON'T DESERVE SPECIAL TREATMENT. Just as whites don't. If you honestly believe that all men are created equal and that we are all equal in this country and that blacks ARE the same as whites, than you would agree that a double standard is not necessary. You, sir, are more racist than any of us. You judge people's privelages by the color of their race, not their intellect or admirable traits.

dimmick - April 17, 2007 05:21 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Renegade)
Yay....more ignorant conservatives! If you morons dont see the difference between independent rappers spewing profanities out of their mouths and a radio host for a major network you have a problem...this guy is speaking on behalf of a major and credible Tv and news company...keeping him on would not only piss off alot of people but would also undermine their credibility as a legitimate tv and news channel.

Which, if you'd read what I wrote, is exactly why I recommended that his original punishment of a 2 week suspension be enforced. Like you said, there is a huge difference between rappers and the public image of a huge, multi-national media conglomerate, and that must be taken into account. At the same time, though, this does not excuse EITHER side for acting in a hateful manner - that is, Imus deserves a suspension for saying things that are unacceptable in modern society. Rappers should not be excluded, and in my opinion should be reprimanded just as harshly for racial and sexist slurs, but just because they are not does not mean Imus should get a free pass as well.

I don't know if that made any sense, so allow me to restate: anyone who says derogatory things like that in a public setting deserves to be punished. Just because one side isn't punished doesn't make it okay for the other side to retaliate in kind. Two wrongs don't make a right, as it were.

QUOTE (Renegade)
And obviously there are double standards for blacks and whites...the blacks didnt enslave and belittle an entire race for several centuries. There SHOULD be double standards.

Protip: I was never a slaveholder, and not a single black person living in America today has ever been a slave. Therefore, I do not owe any black person any sort of free pass for a double standard at all; by actually endorsing a double standard based solely on race, you are doing the black community an even greater disservice by cultivating an atmosphere of entitlement AND insulting them by arbitrarily labeling them as weak (they are unable to fend for themselves, and thus need special protection). I submit that you, sir, are the ignorant one here - not only have you become offended on behalf of someone else, which is fallacious in and of itself, you have managed to insult and degrade the very group you wanted to protect.

Patriot76 - April 17, 2007 08:26 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (dimmick @ Apr 17 2007, 05:21 AM)
Protip: I was never a slaveholder, and not a single black person living in America today has ever been a slave. Therefore, I do not owe any black person any sort of free pass for a double standard at all; by actually endorsing a double standard based solely on race, you are doing the black community an even greater disservice by cultivating an atmosphere of entitlement AND insulting them by arbitrarily labeling them as weak (they are unable to fend for themselves, and thus need special protection).

I have always thought this and am glad some one intellegent shares my belief. No American alive today, white or black, has ever been a slave or has owned a slave. Therefore, black poeple have to stop asking for special treatment, and white people (especially liberals) have to stop trying to make excuses to give them special treatment.
By people like Al Sharpton trying to "fight for equality" he is only reigniting a racism debate. All men are born and created equal. Blacks and whites all have the same opportunities. Al sharpton and Jesse Jackson try are only around because they preach there is inequality when in fact they are just trying, as dimmick and facist said, create a dumb double standard.

Instead of firing Imus, his "revered" radio station and the Constitution should have protected him. If people can toss around the 2nd ammendment as a reason not to enforce stricter gun laws in crime filled areas, the first ammendment should be able to be used to allow anyone to say anything. There are no "For Instances..." in the Constitution, only the correct social "morals" we learn from people like sharpton.

Renegade - April 18, 2007 12:17 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (dimmick @ Apr 17 2007, 05:21 AM)
QUOTE (Renegade)
Yay....more ignorant conservatives! If you morons dont see the difference between independent rappers spewing profanities out of their mouths and a radio host for a major network you have a problem...this guy is speaking on behalf of a major and credible Tv and news company...keeping him on would not only piss off alot of people but would also undermine their credibility as a legitimate tv and news channel.

Which, if you'd read what I wrote, is exactly why I recommended that his original punishment of a 2 week suspension be enforced. Like you said, there is a huge difference between rappers and the public image of a huge, multi-national media conglomerate, and that must be taken into account. At the same time, though, this does not excuse EITHER side for acting in a hateful manner - that is, Imus deserves a suspension for saying things that are unacceptable in modern society. Rappers should not be excluded, and in my opinion should be reprimanded just as harshly for racial and sexist slurs, but just because they are not does not mean Imus should get a free pass as well.

I don't know if that made any sense, so allow me to restate: anyone who says derogatory things like that in a public setting deserves to be punished. Just because one side isn't punished doesn't make it okay for the other side to retaliate in kind. Two wrongs don't make a right, as it were.

QUOTE (Renegade)
And obviously there are double standards for blacks and whites...the blacks didnt enslave and belittle an entire race for several centuries. There SHOULD be double standards.

Protip: I was never a slaveholder, and not a single black person living in America today has ever been a slave. Therefore, I do not owe any black person any sort of free pass for a double standard at all; by actually endorsing a double standard based solely on race, you are doing the black community an even greater disservice by cultivating an atmosphere of entitlement AND insulting them by arbitrarily labeling them as weak (they are unable to fend for themselves, and thus need special protection). I submit that you, sir, are the ignorant one here - not only have you become offended on behalf of someone else, which is fallacious in and of itself, you have managed to insult and degrade the very group you wanted to protect.

At this point and time I do believe there should be a double standard because racism is still prevalent in out society and until its significance is diminished from society this double standard should be applied. Progress is being made and in 20-30 years the whole race issue will fade. But at the same time I think if a black commentator for a big news network were to refer to a group of white femal basketball players as a bunch of slutty crackers he would get the axe just like Imus did.

Patriot76 - April 19, 2007 09:12 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Renegade @ Apr 18 2007, 12:17 AM)
I think if a black commentator for a big news network were to refer to a group of white femal basketball players as a bunch of slutty crackers he would get the axe just like Imus did.

I bet I can find a rapper who has said something along those lines and still makes "music" if you can call it that.

Patriot76 - April 23, 2007 11:44 PM (GMT)
A breakthrough?

Saying I told you so just seems so bitter sweet. Why would they get rid of such profanities if they are non existant. Oh wait...

swhite08 - June 29, 2007 04:56 PM (GMT)
It's crap....freedom of speech to yourself, but don't speak it on the radio!!

dimmick - July 6, 2007 02:35 AM (GMT)
I don't agree - freedom of speech can be restricted in times when it is likely to cause public panic or unlawful action (the classic example being Oliver Wendell Holmes' "falsely shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater), but Imus was not going to cause any kind of public panic by using language that is, compared to the lyrics of many mainstream rap artists, quite tame. The whole issue blew up when someone became offended on behalf of someone else and made a big deal out of it to a major media outlet. Things that are much worse get said every day by countless people without a hint of controversy.

That said, Imus is a well-known public figure, and as such his choice of words was admittedly poor. He certainly should not have said such things due to his position of influence and public visibility. However, the reason I made those earlier points is that I firmly believe that he should have been stuck with a 2 week suspension; termination of his contract was an absurdly excessive punishment.

Cloaked - September 17, 2007 02:39 AM (GMT)
Of course he should not have been straight up fired for the actual act of saying what he did, but you must think of the situation from a fiscal perspective: The media decided it hated what he said. Imus was causing the radio station to lose its sponsors, the lifeblood of radio. They felt the best choice financially was to fire him.

dimmick - September 17, 2007 10:46 AM (GMT)
But if he has a legal contract to say things that are edgy and offensive (without which his show would not have been nearly as popular as it was), then the company's financial well-being has absolutely no bearing on the situation.

Cloaked - September 18, 2007 12:14 AM (GMT)
This is true. Unfortunately ethics rarely take precedence over money.




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